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      Mark
      Participant

      I am of course very interested in and excited by true nature of the human condition and its scientific explanation, but I find myself quite confused about something, and would welcome some help….

      If my reading is correct, the Adam Stork analogy argues that at the point when humans developed conscious intellectual awareness (some two million years ago), they inevitably incurred hostility from their own previously ingrained instinctive nature, bacause they had in a sense rebelled against it. Adam Stork flew away to the apple orchard because he was consciously aware that there was something good there, and in so doing he abandoned his previously instinctive flight path towards the north. His instincts consequently accused him of being bad, which made him feel guilty – this sense of guilt and shame is the equivalent of our present miserable ‘human condition’.

      Also, as I understand it, before we became consciously aware, we had already evolved to a point where we were able to live peacefully and harmoniously together, rather like the bonobo primates do today. Our intincts were therefore already peaceful, not selfish and warlike, ones.

      I think I am clear about the above concepts. What I don’t relate to is the idea that “by seeking knowledge consciously, we somehow come under attack from an inner self that is itself loving and caring, and that this attack then makes us defensive and resentful, which in turn makes us selfish and hostile to others [the human condition]”…..I can’t seem to relate to this sequence in my own experience of life, and I would be very grateful to hear from others about how they relate to it. Thank you.

    • Reply

      Chris
      Participant

      Hey Mark,
      you are right to be excited, the deeper you delve into Jeremy Griffith’s explanation of the human condition, you will find endless exciting, liberating and amazingly insightful compassionate truthful understandings into why and how the human condition has developed over the last 2 million years, and the incredible transformation available to all humans now to live free of their upset.

      I’m going to do my best to add some value to your question, but others much more experienced will surely chime in if I fail to do this justice.

      I want to take a step back, just to redefine the two learning systems. The Gene based learning system (instincts) is not insightful and dogmatic, it is a product of orientations refined over millions of years, and simply drives the behaviour without much need for conscious understanding of the situation. and as you stated above, we lived in a cooperative, loving and selfless, we were and integrated harmonious species, which our instincts are orientated to behaving in accordance with. Now since the gene based system is non insightful and dogmatic, it was not appreciative of the nerve based learning system (our intellect or conscious minds) need to search for understanding. As the nerve based learning system, is insightful, basically it works on understanding, simply obeying our instincts was no longer an option once our conscious mind was liberated.

      However with our instincts having no appreciation of the conscious minds need to, in effect, rebel against or “challenge” our instincts for management of our lives, since they are completely opposite learning systems and in-compatible, they would resist and in effect criticise the brain for disobeying his instincts and undergoing and experiment in self management. So when Adam grabs the apple, he needs to understand what it means to be selfish, to be able to make sense of why behaving selfless in important, however the instincts are not appreciative of this need to understand, so they will “try pull Adam back on course”, demand he merely behaves selflessly in accordance with his instincts, and not question it, however Adam is conscious now, and his brain needs understanding, it needs to know WHY behaving selfless is important. But he didn’t have a defence for himself, the human condition hadn’t been solved then, language hadn’t even been solved then! So he probably couldn’t even have a chat to himself.

      That criticism from the instincts, which are not appreciative of the conscious minds need to search for understanding, breaks out into a conflict or “war” with the conscious mind, developing a sense of guild and as a result insecurity, about whether Adam was good or bad for having behaved in such a way, that for reasons he could not explain, made him feel bad. Now to cope with this, the only response available, was to angrily retaliate against the unjust criticism, and as we can appreciate, it really was unjust. Then to block it out, so he became alienated. and lastly to become egocentric, focused on PROVING why he was good and not bad, until the REAL explanation (which Jeremy has now given us) for why we are fundamentally good and heroic could arrive.

      Now in regards to relating it to our own experience, it will take time and patience, as Adam had to block out the criticism, naturally after 2 million years we are pretty blocked out! so the “deaf effect” as Jeremy terms it, is a very real things all humans will have to adjust to, and I know in myself it took a while, but patiently re-reading the material (especially the adam stork story!), discussing them on forums and watching the videos available, helped my subconscious become relaxed with the information and overcome the initial confrontation, and I started to, and still am, seeing more clearly what Jeremy explains in his book and how this relates to me. but it does take patience. If you have read Plato’s cave analogy, we are coming from deep in the cave, but slowly we’re edging our way to the cave entrance and out into the warm and compassionate sun of truth.

      There is also a birthday cake analogy which I cant find but if someone can link it that may help as well! Best of luck mate, hope I was able to add some value.

      • Reply

        Mark
        Participant

        Thank you very much Chris, you have certainly added value and clarification for me, in particular by expanding on the nature of the two learning systems, the genetic and the neural, and reminding me of the particular way in which they conflict with one another. I will be patient as you suggest, and continue to reflect on the information presented. Many thanks for taking the time to respond to me so fully. Best wishes.

      • Reply

        Kimmy
        Participant

        Hey Chris, That is a fantastic explanation, you are very good at putting it into understandable ways

        “However with our instincts having no appreciation of the conscious minds need to, in effect, rebel against or “challenge” our instincts for management of our lives, since they are completely opposite learning systems and in-compatible, they would resist and in effect criticise the brain for disobeying his instincts and undergoing and experiment in self management. So when Adam grabs the apple, he needs to understand what it means to be selfish, to be able to make sense of why behaving selfless in important, however the instincts are not appreciative of this need to understand, so they will “try pull Adam back on course”, demand he merely behaves selflessly in accordance with his instincts, and not question it, however Adam is conscious now, and his brain needs understanding, it needs to know WHY behaving selfless is important. But he didn’t have a defence for himself, the human condition hadn’t been solved then, language hadn’t even been solved then! So he probably couldn’t even have a chat to himself. ”

        I get a lot from this but I don’t understand these instincts still being very much part of us, because I have always believed we as humans no longer have these instincts like animals have, always thought, been told or heard along the way that we no longer have instincts, that we are no longer driven by instincts. This is what we are told, we are reinforced this. When I see my animals, my pets, I am thinking well how do they behave differently, they follow instincts, eat, drink, sleep but cannot make conscious decisions like a human, but their instincts for “survival” aren’t always kind or all loving, they will compete with each other for that food, for survival, how are we different. Because we are all animals? mammals? Even as it is said we came from a Boboo monkey that is calm and all loving. Want to understand the differences, which is biological? We are nerve instincts and the dog is gene instincts, but still have instincts. I’m really loving this place.

      • Reply

        Chris
        Participant

        Thanks Kim,
        It really is a tribute to Jeremy’s incredible writing, which I try to do at least 1% justice to, but reading it from him is definitely the cleanest you’ll find.

        TO answer your question, again referring to the Adam Stork Story, we can see that while Adam had to inevitably challenge his instincts and use his newly liberated conscious mind, his instincts did not disappear, they remained, and unaware or naive of the role of the newly liberated conscious mind, inevitably came into conflict with it, which has lasted us for 2 million years and is the core biological reason for all the imperfect and destructive behaviour humans are exhibiting today.

        As for why we are taught they no longer exist in us, this would certainly be due to, if you refer back to my response on the other post:
        ( https://www.humancondition.com/forums/topic/adjustment/#post-42625 ) a result of our alienation, the need to block out our instinctive criticisms towards our minds search for knowledge until we could reconcile the two with understanding, which has now been found in FREEDOM and all over this website. Since the world is currently still practising a lot of denial, there is a plethora of commonly accepted excuses and false explanations for human behaviour and its origins, however the deeper you delve into Jeremy’s book FREEDOM, the essays and the videos, he deconstructs each and every lie and replaces it with a fully accountable and verifiable truthful explanation of our origins and how it has developed to present day.

        I’m personally more familiar with actually being taught that we have savage instincts, like other animals, although this has been a convenient lie that we had to implore to gain relief from our corrupted condition until we could find the dignifying defence for why we had fallen so far from grace, which Thankfully Jeremy cleanly exposes with the truthful explanation which reveals unlike other animals, humans actually have loving, selfless and cooperative instincts, which was made possible from our ideal nursery conditions and subsequent evolutionary adaptations which allowed us to nurture our young and essentially brainwash them in love, which most animals on the planet have not been able to achieve, hence why they have not been able to liberate their conscious mind. A much more detailed explanation of both my above points is provided in essay 2, essay 21 and essay 24 which I will link below.

        lastly just to clarify, instincts are genetic but nerves are not, the intellect or conscious is a part of the nerve based learning system, which was used primarily to coordinate movement in our ancestors and so had the capacity to store imprints or memories, which left us the potential to develop consciousness to the degree Humans have today, which adequate nurturing and ideal nursery conditions allowed us to fully liberate. This allows us to relate past events to decide how to act in future events and manage our life from a basis of relating experiences to make decisions, basically use our intellect or conscious mind to manage our lives rather than our instincts, which most other animals do not, as you identified.

        i’ll leave the links below, definitely recommend checking them our for more clarity on all your above questions, they are amazingly clear and concise. Glad you are loving this space Kimmy, it is really an exciting time now where we can share and understand the truth about us humans and begin to live the kind of world we all expected to have as kids, and we finally get to use our brains the way they were supposed to be used! :)

        https://www.humancondition.com/freedom-essays/the-false-savage-instincts-excuse/
        https://www.humancondition.com/freedom-essays/how-did-we-humans-acquire-our-altruistic-moral-conscience/
        https://www.humancondition.com/freedom-essays/how-did-consciousness-emerge-in-humans/

    • Reply

      Tommy
      Participant

      Only things I thought to pass on in addition to Chris’ thorough reply, in case of some assistance Mark is that the homepage says that the first 4 videos are key and in my experience that is a great guide. The 4th one has a section which explains why having moral instincts caused a ‘double whammy’ effect of criticism from our loving dictatorial non-instighful instincts which is a helpful section. And I love the 10th video too, including the section titled ‘Our immense guilt and insecurity about our fundamental worth and goodness has been driving our behaviour’. (These videos and other freedom essays are a brilliant place to start as they breakdown Jeremy’s book ‘Freedom’ into sections, and you probably feel you have your hands full there Mark for now, but ‘Freedom’ itself, and particularly Chapter 3 obviously covers it all beautifully too, especially Chap 3.7 “Our instinctive moral conscience has been ‘a sharp accuser, but a helpless friend'”. Anyway a free download from the website if you wanted a look). As you persevere with this stuff, as Chris says, and our historic fear of the human condition slowly breaks down, what becomes really clear is that understanding the battle between our instincts and intellect shows just how deeply insecure we are about our self-worth and that it’s behind all the problems we face individually and as a species. It’s such an amazing breakthrough, we now have knowledge that not only explains and defends us but also transforms us and everything around us, so you’re only going to get more excited Mark! (And the birthday party analogy that Chris refers to is from Jeremy’s first book which I’ve just finished reading and this is the link https://www.humancondition.com/free-story-of-the-birthday-party/#toc-11)

      • Reply

        Mark
        Participant

        Thank you very much Tommy for your support, and in particular for pointing me towards those specific resources – I’d already watched the first four videos but hadn’t gone much further than that, so your recommended reading and viewing is very helpful. Best wishes.

    • Reply

      RJ
      Participant

      Chapter 8 of Freedom really helped me bring the whole Adam stork story home to my particular life, as it goes through the individual’s journey with the human condition too, especially now when we are born into a world where the upset in the world is so enormous. These are two paragraphs that came to mind which might help others (731-732)

      “Of course, it was inevitable that as the human condition developed children were going to become increasingly influenced by the psychologically upset, angry, egocentric and alienated world in which they were raised, and that it would become harder to differentiate what upset in them was a result of those external circumstances or from their own experiments in understanding. However, even in the original situation, where there was little or no upset in the world, we can expect that by the age of eight, children would justifiably be feeling resentful towards the ‘criticism’ emanating from their instinctive self of their tentative efforts to self-manage their life using understanding. And, unable to adequately cope with this ‘criticism’ with understanding of it, we can expect that each child would begin to retaliate against the criticism as the only form of defence available to them. The problem then, however, was that these early, relatively mild experiments in retaliation—of anger, selfishness and dishonest excuse-making in mid-childhood—had the alarming effect of greatly compounding the ‘criticism’ from the child’s perfectly integratively orientated, moral instinctive self and from their awareness of the integrative meaning of existence; they induced the double and triple whammy mentioned earlier. From being mildly insecure we can expect the child to now feel guilty and that this drastic escalation in criticism and thus frustration would be a contributing factor to the turbulent, boisterous ‘naughty nines’ that parents and teachers have labelled this stage. By the end of childhood, at the ages of 10 and 11, we can expect the resentment and frustration to be such that it would express itself in the form of taunting and bullying. The child would be belligerently lashing out at the unjust world: ‘Why shouldn’t I feel resentful and retaliate?’, ‘Why shouldn’t I shove you around if I can, especially since I’m bigger and stronger?’, ‘Why can’t I have my way?’, and ‘What’s wrong with being selfish and aggressive anyway?’

      In the situation that exists today, where the external upset is almost overwhelming, we can expect that almost all of the child’s upset will have resulted from their encounter with external upset. The increasingly thoughtful child can see the whole horribly upset world and would be understandably totally bewildered and deeply troubled by it. Eight-year-olds will only be beginning to be consciously troubled by the horror of the state of the world they have been born into, but by nine they will be overtly troubled by it and requiring a lot of reassurance that ‘Everything is going to be alright.’ In fact, nine-year-olds can be so troubled by the imperfection of the world that they go through a process of trying not to accept that it is true. By 10, this despair about the state of the world reaches desperation levels with nightmares of distress for children. It is a very unhappy, lonely, anxious, needing-of-love time for them. So at 11 some enter a ‘Peter Pan’ stage where they decide they don’t want to grow up; they decide they want to stay a child forever, surrounded by all the things they love, and not ever become part of the horror world they have discovered. It is no wonder ‘Teachers love teaching 11 and 12-year-olds’ who have ‘become civilised’—they’re essentially tame compared with the ‘reckless’, ‘naughty’, flailing-out-at-the-world ‘nine and ten-year-olds’.”

    • Reply

      lizzy
      Participant

      Cool discussion guys. I can’t read enough of this stuff and have even found the bigger version of FReedom on the website and it talks about what happens when Adam Stork has a child who then has to grow up in this stuffed world and what happens then, Jeremy calls the child Adam Stork Junior, it’s really good, heeres the link but you’ll have to search down to find it https://www.humancondition.com/freedom-expanded-book1-the-anguish-of-resignation

    • Reply

      Linda Susan
      Participant

      Hello Mark,
      I love Adam Stork. All I can say is that it seems to fit my own experience of his dilemma.
      Let’s say that one has an intuition, a sense that there is more to any present context in which one might be embedded.
      Such a sense of unease, dissatisfaction leads one to embark on a different course of action. A moving away from a formerly cohesive group of instinctive behavioral action. The group is upset, disturbed, alarmed and annoyed that one is seeking other ways to experience THEIR reality. The GROUP reality has repeated the same instinctual behavior in a totally unconscious manner over millennia.
      Poor Adam Stork senses something amiss, some needling sense of something beyond the norms of the group and flies off in another direction. The group are annoyed, angered, resentful of his independent ‘betrayal’ and he knows that these feelings make him feel uncomfortable, fearful, unsure, lonely and alienated. but he cannot explain to them or to himself WHY he is doing What he is doing.
      It’s a truly dreadfully upsetting feeling for Adam Stork. He is being rejected by the group but some profoundly important impulse within him is calling him to further exploration outside of the cultural context of the Groups instinctual actions.
      The result for Adam Stork is a state of dread, loss and confusion. He experiences an undeniable ‘call’ to explore beyond the strictures, structures and scriptures of a present, unworkable content for HIM = Adam Stork. This is the agonizing source of dislocation, when a present context is unworkable and a future context, that beckons, is unknown. It’s a long, long process of discovery. It’s a lonely and isolating journey, a sad and painful Rite of Passage.
      Above all, it is a fundamental prerequisite for knowledge, to relinquish the supposed security of the group and strike out onto a new and unknown path of discovery of SELF. It is, in a sense, a Pilgrims Progress towards a new enlightenment. An arduous but vital journey for liberation.

    • Reply

      RJ
      Participant

      That’s cool that you love Adam Stork Linda, so do I! That little story brings so much understanding to our lives it really is going to save the world no less! I think I get what you are saying and I may not be completely comprehending your words, apologies if that’s the case, but for me the point about the Adam Stork story is that it’s not just criticism from ‘the group’ but from within Adam too. It’s an analogy for the two learning systems that exist within humans, an instinctive genetic loving one, and a newly emerged conscious nerve-based one. That’s where the conflict occurred between these two systems and because our instincts are to love and cooperate, it ‘in effect’ criticised us for ‘going off course’. This undeserved criticism led to us having to block out/alienate from our soul/instincts, become angry/retaliate against them and become egocentric/constantly proving our worth. Just as you put it, it was a long arduous process of discovery from there, and for 2 million years we’ve searched for knowledge, now to have found the ultimate and reconciling of these two selves, self-knowledge in what the WTM is putting forward. The massive and coolest thing about it is that this info explains and brings defence to our mad behaviour, nothing else could or will stop our destructive behaviour, but that does. Anyway let me know whether I’ve misunderstood what you’re saying or don’t understand what I’m saying, as it’s pretty crucial info to get right.

    • Reply

      Linda Susan
      Participant

      Hello RJ,
      I agree with all that you say. I’m glad that you emphasized the inner turmoil of poor Adam Stork. When I was 17yrs of age I wrote in my diary 6 words – Contradiction, Confusion, Conflict, Complexity, Collapse, and Consciousness. This was my mantra.
      I think it was Martin Heidegger who said: ‘No breakthrough until breakdown’. I concur.
      A biological understanding of our present predicament is of immense interest. But how many of us are prepared to admit that we are animals? Human animals who have evolved the amazing capacities for creative imaginative expression and the egocentric drives for domination, manipulation and destruction.
      I’m very heartened that the biological sciences can now explain these warring factions.
      The maternal nurturing (if the environment allows) can provide essential qualities of care that can imbue a child’s life with the joy of gradual exploration and fulfilment.
      For a full understanding of any situation it must be contextualized. The context is no longer the village or the tribe but the global arena which the human mind must comprehend.
      Consciousness is forever expanding outwards and upwards towards organizing and ordering its world. Making sense of all this information is mind boggling. It’s tragic to witness so many devastated lives. Young people desperately searching for answers that might make sense of all this information. It is wisdom we need, knowledge and understanding.
      Jeremy Griffith seems to be saying that the concept/idea of Divinity is the human imaginative projection of its own inner aspirations towards higher and higher complexities of integration.
      Religions, Myths, Philosophies can now be understood as human attempts to order apparent chaos.
      Do you think that Jeremy Griffith would concur with Joseph Campbell’s belief that ‘ God is an intelligible sphere whose centre is everywhere and circumference nowhere’.?
      I know that he would never interpret this as human hubris. Humility is intended. We are not the agents/creators of the cosmos or of ANY life on earth, we are lifeforms curious about ourselves and our life-world.
      Somehow within the human animal there is a need to worship or maybe the word is experience awe, wonder at the magnificence of this unique planet.
      What part do you think physics plays in the human consciousness immersed in this life-world?
      In all humility it seems that Prometheus, Lucifer and Adam far from committing transgressions are the heroes of the human story.
      It certainly relieves us of the burden of guilt, blasphemy and original sin.
      It’s a sort of Paradise Regained?

      • Reply

        Susy
        Participant

        Hi Linda, Hopefully RJ will enlighten us also, but I thought I’d offer a reply to your good questions too! Am loving following along with your journey.

        Firstly, I love your line that ‘it seems that Prometheus, Lucifer and Adam far from committing transgressions are the heroes of the human story. It certainly relieves us of the burden of guilt, blasphemy and original sin.’ This is exactly what this understanding of the human condition brings about, and it does results in us regaining ‘paradise’ on Earth no less, amazing stuff!

        I think what would help you most of all is reading either Chapter 4 of Jeremy’s book Freedom, or Freedom Essay 23, https://www.humancondition.com/freedom-essays/the-integrative-meaning-of-existence/ which brings understanding to the integrative meaning of existence and its personification as ‘God’. Jeremy explains that ‘the direction or theme or purpose or meaning of existence is the ordering or integration or complexification of matter, a process that is driven by the physical law of Negative Entropy’. Negative Entropy is the the law of physics that accounts for this integration of matter and also is known as the ‘Second Path of the Second Law of Thermodynamics’. As Jeremy explains ‘The law of Negative Entropy states that in an open system, where energy can come into the system from outside it—in Earth’s case, from the sun, and, in the case of the universe, from the original ‘big bang’ explosion that created it—matter integrates; it develops order.’ So it’s not human’s consciousness or our imaginations that are driving this order in the world but this law of physics.

        In regard to Joseph Campbell, Jeremy has him listed as an ‘unresigned prophet’ in his earlier book ‘A Species In Denial’. In terms of his quote “God is an intelligible sphere whose center is everywhere and circumference nowhere” Campbell says it means this: “Each of us — whoever and wherever he may be — is then the center, and within him, whether he knows it or not, is that Mind at Large, the laws of which are the laws not only of all minds but of all space as well.”

        So I think Jeremy would absolutely agree that using the demystification of ‘God’ given above, each of us is a manifestation of God and that God is within us. To tease it out a bit, and you will get a better understanding of all this in the above essay and chapter in Freedom, Jeremy explains that God is the law of Negative Entropy, which is Integrative Meaning, which is love, and that underpins everything in the universe, and the conscious mind is completely a product of that ‘law’, and that law has governed everything the conscious mind has done, even when we appeared to be in conflict with it. This information gives you just unbelievable insight into anything!!

        Given you amazing knowledge of all these great thinkers and writers, I also think you would absolutely love Freedom Essay 53 Linda, it will bring so much together for you in a very profound way I think. It’s titled ‘The ‘instinct vs intellect’ is the obvious and real explanation of our condition, as all these great thinkers evidence’

      • Reply

        RJ
        Participant

        Great reply Susy. I hadn’t heard of Joseph Campbell’s quote but that makes good sense to me, and just quietly how utterly amazing is it to be able to understand God!

        Glad I helped a bit Linda. Maybe now that you have found this understanding you can add to your old diary mantra ‘Compassionate & Comprehnsive Clarity producing Calmness & healing-Change & ending all Conflict — & what a Celebration!!’ No more breakdowns for breakthroughs any way, it’s clear sailing for humanity now we have reconiling and redeeming understanding!

    • Reply

      Linda Susan
      Participant

      Thank you Susy and RJ,
      This is really phenomenal stuff.
      It’s so energizing. It’s beyond inspiring and I can hardly contain the joy of it all. But with that immense joy, I feel such anxiety for those who are in the depths of despair and immobilized by their condition. All the suffering within the sentient world. All the tragedy.
      So a balance is of such importance. The joy, hopefully will promote the Good News and steadfastly encourage more and more conversations and positive actions for good.
      Thank you both for all the contributions are for initiating this topic. This central, core topic.

      • Reply

        Susy
        Participant

        It is a balance I agree Linda and I also agree that the more joy grows for this phenomenal breakthrough understanding of the human condition, this ‘central core topic’ as you say, the more the momentum will spread and help everyone. In the very inspiring Freedom Essay 57 https://www.humancondition.com/freedom-essays/the-magnificence-of-the-transformed-state-video-1/ Jeremy talks about that the joy is actually not out of place now and I just have to include an extract because it’s so good and I think you will love it!: “I know that such excitement and happiness may seem insensitive to all the suffering in the world, but this joy and enthusiasm is not out of place because ‘the cavalry is coming’—well, that is the phrase used in ‘Cowboys and Indians’ folklore; in more contemporary ‘Star Wars’ terms, ‘the Force’ is with us—everything is possible now, help is on its way to every person in every corner of the world. Love has come to the world in its absolute purest form, namely as relieving understanding. We humans are free now of the agony of the human condition. Everyone in every situation and predicament can now rise up as radiant new beings from their corpse-like state. A great rising up of humans will now occur across the world. Everyone is now able to come back to life—to wake up from a human-condition-afflicted torpor and look outwards and see each other and the world for the first time, and move across and help each other, and do anything and everything that needs doing to end the suffering and pain that plagues this planet.”

        It’s true also though that most people find this information initially hard to access which for someone like you who accesses it very easily that respsone will be fairly bewildering. The whole subject of the human condition has been the most terrifying of subjects to face and people become ‘deaf’ to discussion of it, which Jeremy powerfully explains in the first video https://www.humancondition.com/freedom-essays/your-block-to-most-wonderful-gift/, and also the way for people to overcome it that fear. I’ve also learnt that although the reality is that it may take some time for people to realise that this information is what it says it is, as with any new scientific breakthrough in history, once it catches on, the infectious enthusiasm and selfless love it liberates will spread like wildfire!

        I’d love to hear from you Linda as you continue to absorb everything, the journey really only gets more exciting!

    • Reply

      Linda Susan
      Participant

      Hello to all fellow travelers!

      I’ve just realized that today is Thanksgiving!
      I just want to wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving for Jeremy Griffith’s book – Freedom – The End of the Human Condition.
      It really is an epiphany, as someone recently wrote in this forum.
      I must say that I continue to love the idea/experience of Advent – I feel SO FREE in admitting all the things that I was too insecure to express.
      Knowing now that ALL these stories/fables/myths etc can ALL be comprehended in the psychological struggles to comprehend reality.
      Jeremy Griffith has bestowed a most wonderful gift upon us all.
      It is the integrity and so profoundly human truth that he has revealed.
      He has done this as an offering to humankind. He has ‘marched into hell for a heavenly cause’ Now I can say God Bless Him because I know that
      the old language is still acceptable as analogy, metaphor etc.
      Every statement, using the old language requires new definitions. So we must always ask the question: In WHAT sense do you mean this, or that, or whatever.
      Now that next Sunday is the First Sunday of Advent, The Coming of the Light of Truth has a profoundly new meaning.
      Our poetic language and our scientific understanding are in a truly transforming conversation.
      I know I will light my Advent candles and put up my crib in the hall and see these symbols more profoundly and more tragically than I could
      ever have imagined.
      The tragedy and agony of One Particular Life – who believed that his appalling sacrifice was necessary.
      So many tragic souls dying for what they believed and could not explain their compulsion to die for something they could not deny.
      Dreadful.
      Humankind is being offered a priceless gift. ‘To Every thing there is a Season’. Let this be a season of joy, peace, and love. The revelation of the science of Jeremy Griffith’s work has brought us home and we can now ‘know the place for the first time’. The comprehension that only an integration of heart, soul, spirit, mind and intellect, in the nourishing presence of science, can unravel the weave of the old threads and create a new tapestry of unimaginable beauty.
      Thank you, thank you, thank you.

    • Reply

      Willow
      Participant

      What a wonderful way to celebrate Thanksgiving Linda, I just love your post!! You write so beautifully – your words are so filled to the brim with incredible excitement and enthusiasm for the new, sunshine filled world that is now available thanks to Jeremy Griffith’s biological explanation of the human condition, it is infectious! Yes, there is so much to be grateful for now that the human condition has been solved. And I totally agree that what Jeremy has done is the greatest gift for humanity. We are just so so lucky!!! To be able to understand ourselves, others and the world around us is truly remarkable.

      I really love that this information has enabled you to ‘feel SO FREE in admitting all the things that I was too insecure to express’. For me, I grew up in a fairly atheist family where those more spiritual aspects of life were frowned upon, so you can imagine the joy I too have experienced in being able to understand, through Jeremy’s scientific explanation, the meaning of religion and the incredibly important role that Christ played in humanity’s journey to the real, true enlightenment that we now have about our paradoxical nature. And what a revelation it was for me to learn that ‘God’ is not a supernatural being up in the sky but a safe, arms length term that us resigned humans had to use to describe Integrative Meaning because it was so devastatingly confronting of how disintegrative we understandably had become as a result of having had no choice but to live under the duress of the horror and agony of the human condition. It is such a relief to be able to finally be able to understand all of this and all manner of mystery and mythology that has shrouded our dark cavernous lives. I found Freedom Essay 23 titled ‘The integrative meaning of existence and its personification as ‘God’’, which you may well have read, an incredible read, here’s the link: https://www.humancondition.com/freedom-essays/the-integrative-meaning-of-existence/

      You may have also read these profoundly beautiful words from chapter 9 of Freedom (para 1258) that always bring me so much comfort whenever I read them about how magnificent life is now that the human condition has been solved: “We humans have, in truth, all been asleep, owned by so much pain and suffering…but it’s on, the great awakening, the rising up of the human race from its deep slumber. From the festering, stalled state it has been in for far too long, waiting for these liberating understandings of the human condition, the human race is finally on its way! … Yes, the gateway is wide open and sunlight is now streaming into our world. We can all break out of our chrysalis, our human -condition afflicted straitjacket, where we have been constrained, letting the wings of our great potential unfold in the sunshine of relieving understanding to reveal the fabulously beautiful creatures we really are.”

      Thank you again for your wonderfully inspiring post!

    • Reply

      Nicoletta
      Participant

      Hi Everyone,

      I am in total wonder reading this forum thread, with so many great questions and answers.
      The ‘infectious’ enthusiasm as you mentioned Susy, that’s radiating from Linda is just wonderful to see because that is the true happiness and relief that we all feel when we are freed from Plato’s cave. Now we can all see the light in the darkness and do our best to help everyone out of Plat’s Cave of denial.

      I believe the best way to save people, Linda, or help them see the light of this information is by just continuing to live out your happy, enthusiastic, joyous, energetic self because you are living out your inner feelings based on understanding that you are good, and not bad and the relief that comes from knowing this is incredible. People will wonder how you can be so happy and it is because you are living in the New world of sunshine, love and joy not in the old world of competitive, aggressive, egocentricity (even though that was the heroic state to be in) as you are free of that battle.

      The sun has always represented light, which represents knowledge. Now we are able to bask in the relieving light of understanding and celebrate all that humans are, and how far we’ve come to finally being able to live a real and meaningful existence.

      And the BEST part of this, is that the Adam stork story provides the fundamental reason why we are GOOD and not bad, simply because of a clash between our instincts and intellect, and our desire to understand the world led us to denying our instincts and asking the questions How? and why? through experiments. This then resulted in criticism from disobeying our instincts which led us to feel bad for not acting lovingly and cooperatively. We had to block out/alienate our soul to seek power, fame, fortune and glory to make us feel good again.
      The AMAZING part about understanding this is that we can let that old way of seeking power, fame, fortune and glory go, because we are GOOD and we are able to feel GOOD and act GOOD all day long, because there is no BAD when you understand the Human Condition because all our behaviour is a result of our psychosis, our Human Condition. We all found our own strategies to cope with our condition but now we are finally free of it and are able to relieve our pain through the immense joy and love that Jeremy provides in Freedom and in all the WTM’s materials.

      As you mentioned, Linda Susan, there is a great feeling of relief through this understanding because it allows you to feel secure in your insecurities, because we are all insecure, but this information allows us to know why and how we are insecure, and render our insecurities done with now. There is nothing to feel insecure about in the new world, and you are definitely feeling this too :)

      As Susy mentioned, once we overcome the deaf effect, by delving into this information more and more, we can really begin to live again.
      Through this understanding no matter how old or young you are, we get our life back. The joy and wonder you feel as a kid is returned, and you can truly laugh and love because we are all loved through this understanding of ourselves and everyone around us.
      That’s the best part (I think there is a never ending ‘best part’ to all the information but…) knowing that we are truly understood and loved by Jeremy Griffith’s work and the WTM, we can truly love ourselves.

      Our inner world reflects our behaviour to the outer world. So through this information, when you feel secure and loved within you, you are able to express that security and love and give it to others. That’s when people will see a massive change in your behaviour and will SEEK for what you’ve got. AND That’s the essence of being able to help others. If you live out your way of life through this understanding all will be good in time. The Battle is over, and now we just have to use our weapon of understanding to bring everyone from the cold, darkness into the warm, love-filled sunshine of knowledge, peace and love. By supporting the WTM and this information, everyone is on the right path to save every human on this planet.

      Thanks for the great discussion, it is very helpful and I love reading the forums. Keep it up :)

    • Reply

      Willow
      Participant

      Wow Nicoletta, I just loved reading your post, so beautifully articulated and inspired!! Thank you for sharing. Jeremy’s Adam Stork analogy is just so wonderful isn’t it in explaining how the human condition emerged and what happens now that we can understand that, being that we can ‘effectively immediately’ free ourselves from the torturous chains of our deep psychological insecurity about our worth. I do just love these words from Jeremy at para 1166 in Freedom (https://www.humancondition.com/freedom-the-transformed-lifeforce-way-of-living/#par1166) describing the hugely transformative effects that come from finally being able to understand the human condition: “‘the excitement and relief of being effectively free of the human condition—the joy and happiness of being liberated from the burden of our insecurities, self-preoccupations and devious strategising; the awesome meaning and power of finally being genuinely aligned with the truth and actually participating in the magic true world; the wonderful empathy and equality of goodness and fellowship that understanding of the human condition now allows us to feel for our fellow humans; the freedom now to effectively focus on repairing the world; and, above all, the radiant aliveness from the optimism that comes with knowing our species’ march through hell has finally ended and that a human-condition-free new world is coming—CAN NOW TRANSFORM EVERY HUMAN AND THUS THE WORLD.’

    • Reply

      Nicoletta
      Participant

      Hi Willow,

      Great paragraph. Jeremy really is amazing in making us feel so relived and extremely excited about the new world and the paradigm shift we will go through from living in the dark to basking in the glorious sunlight!

      Understanding the human condition really is just an incredible thing, especially for us to be able to understand it NOW and be the first out of Plato’s cave and first ones able to see the truth! It’s just really special.

      All our hard battling and suffering served it’s purpose but now it’s DONE! It’s Beautiful to know that there is only happiness and freedom awaiting us on the other side of the hill (Jeremy’s drawing of ‘Humanity’s Journey from Ignorance to enlightenment’ in FREEDOM chapter 3:10)

      We can only move forward now. No turning back because the new world is a million times better compared to the old way of living. As you quoted Willow, there is just so much meaning and purpose in the new world and it truly is a magical place! We are in essence ‘born again’ but with true understanding of ourselves. We are now free to behave in accordant with our instincts, to act lovingly, selfless and cooperatively because we have understanding about ourselves. We are no longer ignorant and are now enlightened with this understanding.

      Everything about it, once you have verified this information, is just wonderful. Completely good. Every way you look at the information is just amazing and the best message I’ll leave here is: If you love this information, It will wholeheartedly love you back!

      ❤️❤️

    • Reply

      Linda Susan
      Participant

      I have just finished listening to Jeremy Griffith’s wonderful Essay Number 39 Christ Explained.
      The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse came to mind – i.e. Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett and, my very own favorite, the late Christopher Hitchens.
      I’m not sure who offered the interpretation (or original meaning?) of Religion as Religio – the turning back to the phenomenal self? I think it was Joseph Campbell.
      The ‘phenomenal’ self can only be comprehended in the holistic totality of the cosmos.
      I know that the biological sciences and physics, appropriately aligned, can offer a wonderful explanation of all such phenomena. The human consciousness integrating his/her multiple dimensions of experience within the ‘Lifeworld’ of the phenomenal universe.

      The poet Rilke said, “In nature there is no inside or outside”.
      This is not to suggest that I comprehend this remarkable achievement in the rational explanation expressed. I feel it much more deeply. I feel it so intuitively that I can’t wait to delve into the entire Freedom book that Jeremy Griffith’s work has so magnificently revealed.
      I feel that the late Christopher Hitchens, whose insight into the difference between the supernatural and the spiritual is important.
      It was Christopher Hitchens who loved and appreciated the mystical poets, John Donne and George Herbert. It was Christopher Hitchens whose deep humanity rejected the insulting and deeply divisive term ‘The Brights’ as proposed by Dawkins to be the byword for the Four Atheistic Horsemen. Anyone who followed Dawkins specific creed. Dawkins own messianic crusade, his own distorted religion of ‘freedom’ was one of ‘The Brights’.
      Dawkins own loathing and bitter condemnations of all religions are symptomatic of a vengeful, personal vendetta. Although I enjoyed Dawkins The Greatest Show on Earth and The God Delusion, it is a very exclusive, rationalist betrayal of ALL that could be said about the majesty, awe and terror that our life-world incorporates.
      The works of Bunyan, Milton and Dante were precious expressions of spiritual searching that Christopher Hitchens greatly admired.
      And these artistically profound and soul-searching quests throughout the ages are a treasure trove of the heritage of Hebraic/Christian and Islamic literature.
      I am in awe of Jeremy Griffiths monumental achievement, his Holy Grail of truth.
      Science, art, literature, religions and philosophies all reconciled, all explicable, all amazing ventures of the trials, triumphs and tragedies of the human imagination.
      It is Paradise restored.
      I don’t know who said the following but it just springs to mind “there is an immense difference between believing in God and believing in him again”. Maybe a quote of G.K.Chesterton?
      The terms ‘ineffable’ and ‘epiphany’ have incredibly rich meanings. Now the time has arrived to experience the significance of these ‘mysteries’ in Jeremy Griffith’s unique and invaluable studies of science and art and the perennial human quest for human fulfillment.
      The ecology of consciousness is the all-embracing, holistic integration of the human life-world in the incredible milieu of the natural cosmos.

      • Reply

        Susy
        Participant

        It’s just so wonderful to read of your ever-growing enthusiasm for Jeremy’s breakthrough ideas Linda, and I can’t wait for you to ‘delve into the entire Freedom book’!! These beautiful and true words of yours feel like they are echoing through this whole Forum (and I hope the whole world!) ‘I am in awe of Jeremy Griffiths monumental achievement, his Holy Grail of truth. Science, art, literature, religions and philosophies all reconciled, all explicable, all amazing ventures of the trials, triumphs and tragedies of the human imagination. It is Paradise restored.’

        Unlike you, I wasn’t incredibly familiar with our valuable classics but I greatly admire and cherish their great words and visions now I can understand the human condition. And the same goes with religions, with this knowledge about human behaviour now, I am very humbled at the incredibly important roles religions have played in humanity’s journey and yes I couldn’t agree more with your summary of Richard Dawkins’ ie. his ‘distorted view of religion’ and his ‘loathing and bitter condemnation of all religions are symptomatic of a vengeful, personal vendetta’. We can see how very, very wrong that view is now and as Freedom describes he is a ‘religion/truth-hater’

        It really is such a celebration now that we can all biologically know our fundamental goodness, and I’m going to post on another post I saw from you now on that very celebratory topic!

      • Reply

        Susy
        Participant

        I was just reading this Essay which makes the important point very clearly that science should not abhor religion, https://www.humancondition.com/freedom-essays/is-sciences-scorn-religion-legitimate/

    • Reply

      Willow
      Participant

      Hello Nicoletta, your post was so wonderful to read, thank you, especially your message that you have signed off with – yes this information is the only thing in the world that does not disappoint!! And it is so desperately needed by humans around the world and the more we love and support it over living out our now understood and therefore obsoleted resigned behaviours the more Jeremy’s most incredible vision that he so beautifully writes about in every book and major document he has written will be fulfilled:‘Soon from one end of the horizon to the other an army in its millions will appear to do battle with human suffering, and its weapon will be understanding and its outcome, world reparation’!

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