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Home Forums Discussing these understandings with family and friends Do you tell people at your work?

This topic contains 31 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by  Roger 9 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • Platoscave
    Participant

    I’m reading Griffiths books every spare minute I have now I can’t get enough but I am worried about bringing it up at work. It’s all good to say ‘be secure in what you know’ but jezuz if I start talking about the human condition and worse yet The World Transformation Movement I may as well quit now. But at the same time I feel like it’s literally all I’m thinking about my every waking moment. There must be others who have been the same?


  • Carlos
    Participant

    I’ve been travelling so have the luxury of not being in a work environment every day but I’m finding myself talking about the human condition all the time because suddenly I have this real thing in my life, “context” and I guess I just want everyone to have it. I’m worried about getting back into the “real” world though. Big challenge having this knowledge :)


  • mol
    Participant

    I find this a difficult one too. I work in the ag industry with people who can be pretty narrow minded and apposed to new or different ideas. If I was to bring this information up at work, it would freak people out and definitely effect their respect for me in the work place. I almost feel guilty because this information means so much to me and how can I be true to myself if I don’t tell anyone about it?


  • seamus
    Participant

    I remember bringing up the subject in the pub, and the response I got, no joke, was ‘that is the most interesting talk I have ever had’. For sure you dont want to be ramming it down peoples throats, but if you are secure, and it is appropriate to be talking about it, then people will respond to that really positively. It just makes so much sense. Even at work, people have a thirst to be talking about something real I would be thinking.


  • maiolo
    Participant

    I agree with all and have been there. I agree seamus and i think the key is ‘you are secure’ — sorry Platoscave I’m not missing your point — i just know when I’ve been reading lots and using the ‘human condition explanation’ in my life then that’s when my mind is clear and i am ‘secure’ in what I know this explains about human behavior but it’s when i’m defensive or tired or i am feeling insecure myself that it all gets f**ked up. That’s when I actually do mess it up and so the person does react negatively, but it’s just a response to me and my insecurities and not the person or these ideas.


  • RayA
    Participant

    I work night shifts in a bakery and during these shifts we cover all manner of subjects, and last night I had the opportunity to discuss these ideas with another staff member. He is fairly open to new ideas so talking about the Adam Stork explanation of the human condition and about how love indoctrination liberated consciousness and about how the theme of existence is actually the development of order of matter, was all really good discussion and easy and exciting. He had some philosophical reservations but I was able to explain enough for him to want to learn more. It’s so good to share this with someone!


  • Willow
    Participant

    I’m a bit late to this thread but it’s an excellent question, especially now that I know the human condition is THE underlying issue in all human affairs and I can see how much it would help everyone I work with (and ever human on the planet!). I totally agree that if I am secure in myself then when a situation naturally presents itself I find I can easily talk about the human condition in the context of the conversation and it’s just so useful to be able to point people to the website and all the wonderful videos, books and other content that is there if the person / people I’m talking to would like to know more. When I’m secure no-one bats an eyelid, when I’m not it can become a little awkward. It’s so good to be able to finally talk about what is really going on and bring truth, love, compassion and understanding to ourselves and everyone around us!


  • AliceW
    Participant

    Thanks Willow that’s most helpful and is where I got to after initially feeling unsure about my knowledge base to talk about the human condition freely. I had a lot of fear but the more you immerse yourself in the material the less fearful you become and then you naturally want to share this because you know how needed it is and therefore you do feel horrible if you don’t talk about it. That is the marvel of this material you are learning and growing all the time and you do encounter people who strongly oppose the discussion which makes sense considering the extent of our denial. I just keep trying to step away from the denial in myself and the old world view and my life becomes more meaningful and rich with every step.


  • Tommy
    Participant

    Like that line AliceW, ‘just keep trying to step away from the denial in myself and the old world view’. Our denial surely is strong coming from a life in Plato’s ‘cave’ but it really had to be, it couldn’t have been any other way growing up without understanding of ourselves. We come from a background of such incredible fear of this subject and so does nearly everyone but that’s the heroic story of humanity. Now we really are the ‘transition generation’ as Freedom terms it and the more you can context this in yourself and the world around you the less intimidating the silence is I find. You can really finally bring true defence and love to yourself and then to the world around you, lose the until-now-necessary self-preoccupation, and I think that brings the security of self that seamus and others have talked about above which includes being able to talk about this information if it’s appropriate (and also being secure enough to see if it isn’t). I’ve also heard the term that this information is ‘like turning the Amazon River around in it’s bed, it’s such a gigantic paradigm shift for us all, so I also try and be really kind to myself.


  • Dave
    Participant

    I just share when I’m having a discussion and some asks something like; why do think people behave so badly. Last night my Mother in law asked me that question and I told her the Adam stork story and she was very intetested. i have overall been dissappoited about how long it has taken with my family, but the joy I get by using the info to help me be a better person/modern human is priceless. I have come to grips with the fact it will take time for HC info to spread..just look how long it took for people to accept evolution the big bang. HC is an even more important discovery, but because people are so much in denial it will take a long time to spread. All I can do is relax and enjoy my free life and be as selfless and unconditional as possible. I have a long way to go, but I know “I’m good”!!!!


  • Michael
    Participant

    I have come to see Jeremy Griffith’s explanation of the human condition as yet another logical framework besides many other logical frameworks which all can be lined up along a universal timeline, from the Big Bang and onwards… all of these frameworks have their own benefits and shortcomings, and while they all are “true” and in line with reality if used correctly as logical frameworks used to understand specific questions and phenomena, none of them is 100% accurate, i.e. none of them is always perfect to use… proof of this is IMO that it´s easy to spot shortcomings of other theories within Jeremy Griffith’s logical framework, but it’s harder to explain away the fact that there is no mentioning within JG’s framework of the astrochemical impasse at the stage of Ironformation within stars, but a whole lot of dismissal of the New Age-movement as consisting of “pseudoidealists”, when in fact the WTM itself can very well be seen as being a part of the startup of this “New Age”… so, when talking with other people whomever they may be, I try to use the appropriate framwork for the situation, knowing that Jeremy Griffith’s logical framework goes a long way, but is not suitable for every question or situation that may arise…


  • Dave
    Participant

    I agree that using the appropriate framework is vital. It seems to me the HC info is much easier to accept if you understand science basics and a timeline as you suggest. I teach a lower level science class at a university and I went out on a limb and added the HC as the final step in the timeline. My timeline goes: Big B, origin of elements in stars, origin of planets and earth/, origin/evolution of oceans, atmos and life to man and then the HC at the end. IN my view this timeline also strongly supports and shows how life organized itself – LOVE and SELFLESSNESS at the end. INcredible!!! It’s nature and explainable, but miraculous and mysterious at the same time. I also love the ideas of Staurt Kaufmann (adjacent possible) and think they fit well with the HC.


    • Michael
      Participant

      Hi Dave, and yeah, having an understanding of how science works is essential if one is to grasp any timeline stretching backwards in time beyond the biblical framework…Jeremy Griffith has by far made the human psyche much more understandable within an all encompassing scientific framework than any other person I can think of, but his neglect of realizing that the elementformation by gravity inside stars which ends with Iron constitutes a third impasse, in combination with his dismissal of the New Age’ers as “pseudoidealists”, unfortunately makes him as a scientist as vulnerable to criticism as is Stuart Kaufman you mention… one only has to read this blog;
      http://rationallyspeaking.blogspot.se/2008/06/another-scientist-getting-silly-about.html
      to realize how little it takes for one’s intentions to be miscomprehended by others…
      What DO fit into one anothers frameworks like Russian Dolls fits one into the other, and along one anothers timelines like pieces of varying lengths of string lined up beside oneanother, is IMO different scientific theories…for instance Linus Pauling’s vitamin C-theory fits well into JG’s framework, as does the Aquatic Ape-theory by Elaine Morgan aswell as the Human Givens-theory by Joe Griffin/Ivan Tyrell, the Thyroid Rhythm-theory by Susan Crockford and several other theories… JG’s biological theory revolving around the Human Condition, do also fit into yet another even grander temporal theory called the “Doughnut theory”, more easily understood as the “Big Bagel-theory” by Howard Bloom… this fundamentally physical theory takes the scientific mind on a rollercoasterride around itself from the BigBang past the present and into the future, where the BigBang will happen once again… so, as exhilarating as Jeremy Griffith’s thinking is, aslong as the New Age’ers are dismissed as “pseudoidealists”, I believe his coremessage will suffer from some inbred hairsplitting difficulties in getting through to every futuristically curious mind…

  • Tess
    Tess
    Participant

    I wish I had you as my science teacher Dave!


  • Dave
    Participant

    Thanks – I have wondered if any of the students have contacted the WTM?

    • WTM Admin
      WTM Admin
      Moderator

      Hi Dave, its hard to tell if any of your students have contacted us as we don’t know their names and we have a very large mailing list, but no-one has specifically mentioned that they have been one of your students.


  • Dave
    Participant

    Hi Micheal, Thanks for the info and links. Why is stellar nucleosynthesis a third impasse? I don’t see it as anymore of an impasse than BB nucleosynthesis in context of a 13.8 billion year old universe. Also, I think the ideas of Kaufmann fit well with the HC, and his ideas, as he says, give life meaning and value within a science framework. This will make JG’s ideas easier to accept for science minded people. We need to expand outside the mechanistic view – which is an impasse. I need to read more about psuedoidealism, but in my view Jeremy is just saying we don’t need it anymore – like religion. The psuedo part is just another way for people to prove they are good. That said, in reference to climate change we need a lot more people to prove they are good!!! I strongly support the efforts of anyone trying to make the world a better place.


  • Michael
    Participant

    Hi again… it is nice with some interaction on this messageboard…:)…Why is stellar nucleosynthesis a third impasse? Well, it can be seen as an early third (or, temporally seen, first?) impasse given that the first and second impasses were identified by Jeremy Griffith within his loveindoctrination-centered framework, where his first impasse was reached by the universal development when individual atoms formed ever more complex molecules on planets, where the gravitational forces eventually made this type of development grind to a halt, because the evergrowing size of unique molecules eventually became too big, which led the molecules to crumble under their own weight… the largest molecules could not become greater, simply put… so, development instead took a 90 degree turn, and started combining molecules instead of combining atoms … this combination of molecules in a specific patterns gave rise to informationsequences like RNA and DNA, and this development of informationsequences instead of moleculebuilding overcame this specific impasse… the next impasse described by JG occurs when genelearning animals no longer can develop their species any further, because their genetic selfishness and competition becomes debilitating for specie-development, which is why development makes another 90 degree turn and starts develop sociality and even larger social wholes instead by way of loveindoctrination…

    These impasses described by JG e.g. here;
    https://www.humancondition.com/freedom-denial-free-history-of-the-development-of-matter/?scroll_to=impasse&scroll_num=1
    both takes place on earth, while the third (first?) gravityrelated impasse reached by Iron inside stars takes place in the universe, but since this knowledge is interesting when it comes to earthly matters in for instance chemistry, I see no point in not recognizing Iron as gravity’s impasse in universal elementformation as another impasse… incorporating chemistry with loveindoctrination and the Human Condition by way of this third impasse can also lead to associations with humans as made up of stardust…(which is good, IMO)…however, BB nucleosynthesis might very well display even more and earlier examples of subatomic impasses, but in order to keep matters within the current modern nanoscale which itself is complex enough, my own imagination is satisfied with this particular criticism of JG’s framework…
    Concerning Stuart Kauffman I’m also supportive of anyone trying to make the world a better place…:)


  • Susy
    Participant

    If you do decide to tell people at your work, these videos from the various WTM Centres around the world that are opening up are brilliant!
    This is from the WTM UK Centre

    Home


    And this is from the WTM South African Centre

    World Transformation Movement South Africa


  • Zzantor
    Zzantor
    Participant

    Almost everyone complains and it’s usually about some HC related issue. When I hear complaining, I try to solve it (in the privacy of my own mind) by relating what I hear to the information in FREEDOM. After awhile, I start to get pretty good at understanding the true nature and cause of (almost) any complaint I hear. FREEDOM is a “universal solvent”. I listen to co workers complaints, really try to understand and by using the information in FREEDOM, solve their problem, by explaining, or showing the causes. This has all been in my mind, I don’t jump right on them with a “ta-da!” People naturally reject new things till they can turn them over in their minds a few times. Now that I think I understand the person that was/is complaining and how I can specifically help them to understand their complaint in a larger context, I just wait, they will complain again(most will), at which point I offer up some LIGHT… I suggest and question like, “what if our feeling that we are good on the inside, no matter what the boss says, is the truth?” That “we are good and science now has proven it”. Leave them feeling that there are possibilities other than the one their complaints lead to. Of course, refer them to the videos and web site(that’s what got me to read FREEDOM).
    Benjamin Franklin discovered if he published a new idea in his newspaper, the public would wholeheartedly reject the proposal, but, let 6 months go by and the same idea would meet with wide approval, He found that any new idea had to be introduced, rejected and digested by the public, before being accepted. I think people have to feel safe from an idea, before they dare think about it, rejecting an idea is to be safe from it and its possible consequences, but being an idea, even though rejected, it can be thought about and seen for what it is and so, by degrees we open up…


  • Conrad
    Participant

    Hi Zzantor, enjoyed reading your post, you must have some interesting chats around the water cooler! This explanation is so profound and far-reaching that it took me a long time to get familiar enough with it to begin to talk to people about it – a timeframe that seems much shorter for you! But in terms of how to talk to people about this information: it might be worth mentioning some background on this issue – the single biggest challenge preventing widespread uptake of this explanation of the human condition is the “deaf effect” where the majority of people are, as you say, “rejecting an idea…to be safe from it”. It’s such a significant challenge in getting people to hear/appreciate the explanation of the human condition that Jeremy has dedicated several pages to it in FREEDOM (Chapters 1:4 & 1:5). Sorry…the point of saying that about the deaf effect is it might help to give some context for when you come across people who are totally uninterested in what you’re saying. Because the truth is it’s certainly absolutely amazing the power of this explanation to make human behaviour transparent and I just enjoyed seeing how it’s playing out in your day-to-day!

  • Zzantor
    Zzantor
    Participant

    Thanks Conrad, I do have some great chat’s around the proverbial water cooler.:) I don’t understand what you mean background on the issue? The context depends on the who, what, where, and why… Yesterday, I was talking with a co worker about various things not related to work, he was about to leave and I remembered WTM and told him to check it out, after he typed in the addy, I proceeded to tell him the Adam Stork Story, which led to Adam and Eve(the first few times I heard the Adam and Eve Story was from my mom and she tells it exactly like Jeremy Griffith tells it, no shit! I think I was around 8 when she first told me.) I reminded my coworker of the war inside himself and behaviors he had no control over, but, knowing inside that he was good all the while, I talked about insecurities I’ve had with women and relationships, relating our difficulties with relationship back to his and my insecurities ultimately resulting from the human condition… It’s out of my hands now, I know he will watch the video(s). I won’t ever bring it up again, but, if he does, it’s on!:)


  • Sam
    Participant

    I work in Oil & Gas and telling people at work is absolutely ok, I just mention how I read this book called Freedom, that it’s blown mind mind with all these insights in relation to the human condition, through an Intellect vs Instinct explanation, that has profoundly impacted the way I see and understand the world.

    My view is that everyone wants Transformation, from the most egocentric bloke or woman out there, to the most fragile and delicate. There is no such thing as someone who doesn’t want to understand the real reason of why we’re actually good, and not bad for being the way we have been, and provided an opportunity to finally be able to make a change of heart in the way they have lived their life.


    • Sam
      Participant

      Apologies for the poor grammar, should check before confirming post…would edit but there’s no edit button.

      To clarify my comment “There is no such thing as someone who doesn’t want to understand the real reason of why we’re actually good, and not bad for being the way we have been, and provided an opportunity to finally be able to make a change of heart in the way they have lived their life.”

      I meant that in the context of what I understand about THC, and the relief and excitement the Transformed Lifeforce Way of Living brings to my life. For me there is simply no comparison between providing people with an opportunity to live in the amazing ‘Transformed Lifeforce Way of Living’, instead of being psychologically forced to live in the agony of being selfishly self-preoccupied with validation all the time, to keep away any depressing implications that they’re bad, useless, meaningless and worthless, for having to be divisively behaved. It’s simply a massive debilitating drainer being in the Resigned state of mind, no matter how successful, people tend to delude themselves to be in it.


    • Conrad
      Participant

      Hi Zzantor, sorry for the confusion, I was just trying to pass on some of our experience with discussing this explanation of the human condition with people who have not come across it before or have no familiarity with it. There is so much material in FREEDOM that has historically been “off limits” or “fearful” or “heretic” and the subject matter itself is on such a huge scale that historically people can take a while to digest it or they try to deny it or they just don’t know what to do with it or anything in between! It’s beyond important that this liberating explanation of humans is disseminated to as many people as possible as quickly as possible – and Chapters 1:4 and 1:5 of FREEDOM provide some important context & background on that process. Good on you Zzantor, your co-workers don’t know how lucky they are!!

      ( just read Sam’s post – how good!!! )

    • Zzantor
      Zzantor
      Participant

      Hi Sam, no worries, it’s hard to check your work when you’re so excited about it.:)Ha!
      I wonder, do you work in the field(blue collar)? I worked in mining and construction many years and found that, even though most conversations revolved around beer(drugs), women(sex) and sports(what’s on TV), I found that I could talk about anything, especially HC related subjects. After all, beer, women and sports are all escapes from the HC and as you said. “There is no such thing as someone who doesn’t want to understand the real reason of why we’re actually good, and not bad for being the way we have been,”
      Everyone can relate to this shithole we call society, with all it’s contradictions and special rules and the whole mess that is the human condition. Has anyone else noticed any difference between blue and white collar workers openness to discussing the human condition?

    • Zzantor
      Zzantor
      Participant

      Conrad, thank you. I’m working on the Deaf Effect. I have seen the Deaf Effect many times(I talk about “forbidden” subjects often), now I have something to call it. You said, “There is so much material in FREEDOM that has historically been “off limits” or “fearful” or “heretic””. Ha! THAT’S what attracted me to the information, but, I’ve come to understand that I am not “normal”.:) I was just talking to my mom and she said my defiant nature was apparent before I could even speak.(evidently, I would refuse her breast, ha!) I have been “at war” with the human condition as long as I can remember, I never resigned, but, I remember two of my close friends (who hadn’t resigned by the time we were 18-19) resign by their mid twenties and I felt as if I was now alone. I knew somewhere there were others that hadn’t “closed the door on wonder”, but, I didn’t know them, or even know of them.
      I will read chapters 1:4 and 1:5 again. I know there is a solution to the deaf effect, I know it exists and I intend on finding it! I only hope someone else finds it before me…:)


  • Sam
    Participant

    Hi Zzantor,
    I’m white collar but grew up in a blue collar family.
    I say the white collar folk love the same conversations about beer, sex, sport, money, cars, etc, but they just prefer to conceal it for the special pub or boys club, and not in the office. Everyone loves a rant about how selfish other people are, as if to ignore that they themselves are just as selfish. That’s just another thing about the human condition, we just desperately need to stay away from any depressing thoughts about our divisively behaved ways, and just bullshit about anything and everything to do that…and hang around others who share the same degree of our bullshit.

    There’s truck loads of bullshit everywhere, we do it all day. The self obsessions and ego’s are so inflated it’s bloody crazy. They don’t mention that at University or high school.

    I have corporate mates that break up with their wives and buy themselves a Porsche to celebrate their bachelor status. The guy’s are miserable, but then you see others on the road look at the porsche wishing they were rich like him to have that car…they have no idea just how miserable the guy driving it actual is, in their condition that lacks substance or soul. There is nothing real about being resigned, and everyone is being sold a furphy on all the materialism on the social media and advertisements. There is simply nothing real there, and I feel so much pity for people who set up goals to achieve any of the bullshit that they advertise as a real representation of being a happy winner, like the hot body and cars and big houses and money. Everyone I know who has that is miserable and insecure, and desperately lonely. The resigned state of power, fame, fortune and glory really is a dead end, and so is the deluded pseudo idealism and all these do-good-to-feel-good charities and movements.

    The human race is desperate for an understanding based transformation, and this scientific insight into the human condition that Jeremy Griffith presents, is the only thing that can do it. It’s so unreal it’s ridiculous.

    I wish all the blue collar workers at the pubs around the place could just grip onto this, because their raw ability to express themselves and their non-ideal but honest ways, are what are in a sense appreciated by this knowledge about ourselves.

  • Zzantor
    Zzantor
    Participant

    Hey Sam,
    we are selfish to the core! ha! Maybe… (I have) it that we are 100% selfish, as even when (I save) a life, (I get) a good feeling. (I want) to spread the message in FREEDOM, ultimately (for me)! Ha! (Let me) explain, (I want) to live in a human condition free world and all that that implies, (I want) that for everyone, as when everyone (around me) is elevated(with this Soul-elevating information) (I cannot) help being “carried away on the wave”. (I help) others, because, they are important (to ME), (I don’t) help the piss ants that have fought their way to (my kitchen) counter, there is nothing they can do (for me) and (I don’t) love them, so, (I wipe) them up with a wet sponge… Ha! This does not go against the info in FREEDOM, because, being altruistic, or selfless is still caring for, protecting, loving the self, the Big Self, it’s not my self, it’s US, the Big Self is all of humanity…


  • Sam
    Participant

    Love it Zzantor. Let’s get the f… out of here.

  • Zzantor
    Zzantor
    Participant

    I’m with ya dude!


  • Roger
    Participant

    Gosh there was a lot of really good posts there but this paragraph from Sam I thought was amazing and really helpful.

    “I meant that in the context of what I understand about THC, and the relief and excitement the Transformed Lifeforce Way of Living brings to my life. For me there is simply no comparison between providing people with an opportunity to live in the amazing ‘Transformed Lifeforce Way of Living’, instead of being psychologically forced to live in the agony of being selfishly self-preoccupied with validation all the time, to keep away any depressing implications that they’re bad, useless, meaningless and worthless, for having to be divisively behaved. It’s simply a massive debilitating drainer being in the Resigned state of mind, no matter how successful, people tend to delude themselves to be in it.”