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This topic contains 4 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  WTM Admin 2 weeks, 3 days ago.

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  • timfin59
    Participant

    At the end of paragraph 155 in “Freedom” it is written:

    “Moses then said that, as a result of the emergence of all our corrupt angry, egocentric and alienated behaviour, we were ‘banished…from the Garden of Eden’-like (3:23) state of original innocence and left ‘a restless wanderer on the earth’ (4:14); that is, we were left in our present, psychologically upset, distressed and alienated condition.”

    But this is only a partial quotation. The full quotation is:

    “You are banning me today from the land and from your presence. I will be a fugitive wandering the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.” 

    While it is true that humans are very much like Kain, wandering restlessly on the earth, it is not true that this is where the story ends in the Bible. Kain was cursed by God to be a “fugitive wandering the earth” because he killed Abel. Kain was angry at God because God saw that Abel was righteousness when he presented an offering from the firstborn of his heard. This curse was supplementary to the curse God placed upon Adam and Eve (and all mankind). It was not passed on to Adam or Eve or to Seth or anyone else who was born later.

    Man fell into sin (good-evil mix) and was banished from the Garden and cursed, but only Kain was cursed to be a “fugitive wandering the earth”. God had a plan for man’s salvation from sin, and this plan was set in motion before Adam and Eva were expelled from the Garden.

    The Bible is very clear that all humans are prisoners in sin (the human condition, the mixture of good and evil in us). It also explains the origin of sin (the fall of Lucifer, Eze 28, Isa 14), as well as the way humans were lured into the same fallen state in the Garden, via the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. However, the Bible also explains how humans can escape from this curse through the circumcision of the heart, which only God can do. This promise was made in Deut 30:6, fulfilled at the crucifixion, and made available at Pentecost, when 3000 were baptised and released from sin. It is in the baptism that the circumcision of the heart takes place (Col 2:12), but in order to experience it, we must put our trust in God and we must be honest about our pitiful condition, i.e. repent.

    In any surgical operation we put our lives in the hands of the surgeon. When it comes to the circumcision of the heart, we also put our lives in the hands of God, because it is in the water that we die to sin (Romans 6). God has furthermore promised to be there with us in the waters (Isa 43:2). This promise that was fulfilled many times (in the Red Sea, through Jonah and Naaman, to name a few). If we approach baptism with a repentant heart, then the operation will be a success, and the promise is to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and Life.

    This is the way God cures sinners (cursed) AND “restless wanderers on the earth” (doubly cursed). It is truly a wonderous thing to die to sin and be born again, freed from the sin-nature that makes the world mad.


  • Tommy
    Participant

    I agree timfin59 that the Bible is an amazing source of truth but it is written in a time where there was no science. What I love about what the WTM is presenting is that it is a demystication of our whole lives, it allows us to understand ourselves and the world, and that includes being able to demystify and understand the precious religious metaphors and stories in the Bible. The amazing story of Cane and Abel is explained in Freedom in paragraph 906, and straight after the section you quote from paragraph 155, Jeremy writes this in para 156:
    “It should be emphasised here that while Moses’ extraordinarily sound and thus effective thinking enabled him to describe all the elements involved in producing the human condition, the story of Adam and Eve is only a description of the conflict that produced the upset state of our human condition, not an explanation of WHY the conflict occurred. As was described in chapter 1, for that all-important explanation to be possible science had to be established and understanding of the difference in the way genes and nerves process information found; we had to understand that one, the genetic learning system, is an orientating learning system while the other, the nerve-based learning system, is insightful. And until that clarifying explanation was found it wasn’t possible to explain that the intellect is actually the hero not the villain, deserving of being ‘banished…from the Garden of Eden’, it is portrayed as in the story of Adam and Eve. Moses was an exceptionally honest and thus effective thinker and could describe the elements involved in producing the human condition, but he could not liberate humanity from the insecurity of that condition. For that to be possible science had to be developed.”


  • DaveH
    Participant

    Hi timfin, I wonder if you slightly misread the quote that you posted?

    The quote you used was ‘banished…from the Garden of Eden’-like (3:23) state of original innocence and left ‘a restless wanderer on the earth’. This isn’t saying that we were banished from the Garden of Eden, but from the Garden-of-Eden-like-state (of original innocence), which from what you say is what happened to Kain.

    All in all, FREEDOM is very appreciative of the efforts of religion to soften our suffering of upset, but recognises that religion isn’t able to fully alleviate the Human Condition because it still requires that we submit our will (intellect) to another being (God), whereas only Jeremy has given us a solution that totally absolves us from our ‘sin’ (denial) as well as taking full personal responsibility for our past, present and future actions.


  • adamjedgar
    Participant

    Hi guys,
    I am new to this forum.

    I used to work for Jeremy and Gervace for a short time (second half of 1988) many years ago in the Griffith Tablecraft factory at Murwillumbah.

    It was my first real job after leaving school.

    It was unfortunate that my father was transferred from the area about 6 months after i started at the factory and i had to move as well.

    It is sad that a product that i came to love in such a short time is no longer being manufactured. This factory and its founders inspired me to study Industrial Arts teaching and i have never forgotten my love of timber and what i learned during my stay at Griffith Tablecraft.

    I just wanted to make a suggestion on this thread…my Bibles spelling of “Kain” is actually with a “C” (Cain (minor thing really).


    • WTM Admin
      Moderator

      It was so lovely to hear about your time at Griffith Tablecraft Adam and to hear what an inspiration it has been to you in your life. No doubt you would have seen the Griffith Tablecraft page on our website but if not I will include the link below. As it says there Jeremy sold his share in the business in 1991, but his whole life has been dedicated to having idealism trump over realism, and it was during his furniture design days that Jeremy began writing about the human condition. Thank you for you post Adam and I hope you continue your interest in the WTM on the Forum. https://www.humancondition.com/griffith-tablecraft/

      • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  WTM Admin.