normal
forum

Home Forums Discussing these understandings with family and friends How do I integrate this with my family & friends?

This topic contains 34 replies, has 27 voices, and was last updated by  transistor 1 month, 2 weeks ago.

  • Author
    Posts

  • Mighty
    Participant

    I read “Freedom” and then started reading everything on the website and trying to explain the concepts to others as I’ve got more familiar and also more excited with how I seem to be able to now understand things about myself and much much more about others’ behaviors. But I just find it hard to find anyone who wants to know about it. And the more I read the more I want to tell my friends and family and the more they just don’t want to know. I’ve read all the stuff about “the deaf effect” but it’s stifling not being able to share this great discovery with those I love. So I want to know what do others do? I feel like I’m gagged now like there’s no point in even trying and I hate that because I know it’s so good and I don’t want to lose it.


  • Jakey
    Participant

    I know precisely what you mean.

  • Stefan
    Stefan
    Participant

    I know what you mean too, and I stopped feeling sorry for myself because of it. As you say, it’s not easy to talk about the human condition with friends and family, and this can be frustrating. That’s a problem because when you’re frustrated, other people notice it and you’re not authentic anymore when you talk about FREEDOM. People sense your frustration and their subconscious becomes afraid that the same thing happens to them if they listen to your explanation or go even further to visit the website and read the book. That’s at least what happened to me.

    Last Wednesday I decided to stop feeling sorry for myself. Not only for being unable to talk about all of this, but also because of everything else that’s not ideal. Usually I would just say to myself that I should stop complaining, while at the same time I would still feel miserable (about myself). But stopping to feel sorry for myself has really changed something. I have changed. And people notice this too. I’m sure they will one day come to me and ask me about my secret if I keep doing so exceptionally well. And that’s when I’m going to talk about the human condition and Jeremy’s explanation.

    One more thing: A few weeks before I decided to stop feeling sorry for myself, I realised that I’m the most important human on earth – for myself. I’m the only person I have 100% control of. At least in theory and only if I transform my life to take control and finally start being myself. So maybe one tip could be to focus on yourself. If you can transform yourself, you can sure as hell help others transform themselves too.

    Good luck!

    And thanks to the WTM for launching the forum. I love it already. Keep on rocking!!


  • Golden
    Participant

    Me too. In hindsight it’s kind of obvious with what I’ve now learnt with the human condition over the last 3-4 years. Everyone, including myself a lot of that time, is avoiding the human condition – with rigor! It’s just when you first hear/learn about what Mr Griffith says it’s just so so so new and enlightening and relieving to have some honesty about us/the world/myself – everything. I miss that enthusiasm of my first months. I agree with Stephen in that I’ve learnt to just stay “secure” in what I know is real and that reflects in my behavior which in turn reflects on these ideas. When I was too strident it didn’t work. Even when I was too excited but in hindsight I can understand why that wasn’t effective either – not that I’d ever want to dampen someone’s enthusiasm for this – it is hard to do that anyway. “Co-dependency” to family/friends/peers is a big deal in all aspects of life so it’s nothing new and when you start learning about something completely new and you’re excited (and in the beginning you’re often not the best explain-er… ‘there’s a stork and an elephant and some primates… (!)’…) and they can’t relate then you’re going to get all sort of responses- initially. But as time passes and you haven’t wavered and you become more functional and compassionate and more alive in all aspects on of your life THEN they start putting 2&2 together. But you do have to be patient and I think the best advice would be to stay as close to this as you can. Read, watch listen as a daily pre-requistite. A whole new paradigm awaits us all!

    Good luck too! And agree with the the forum as well!


  • serento
    Participant

    I think you impress them with what a difference it makes in your life. I know Im a totally different person than what i was before I learnt about this, and people can see that and know where it comes from. But have to agree with the codependency thing to. Have to work on that!


  • Mighty
    Participant

    Thanks a lot. Helps just to know I’m not alone :-)


  • otter
    Participant

    there must be some good stories out there about how people came across this stuff. How did you Mighty?


  • pixie
    Participant

    I followed a google ad, more out of boredom than anything else. But it was such an unusual website that I kept looking at the material on it and then I came back to it the next day, and eventually downloaded the book FREEDOM. People have said that it is difficult to read, but I didn’t find that at all. And I keep coming back!


  • ben85
    Participant

    Omg yes! I’ve been trying to talk with my parents and thought I was making progress. Over the last few months we’ve had many many long debated discussions. They’re supportive in my new found”interest” & impressed with my change in general happiness & assuredness (&say I’ve never been so articulate!) BUT then mom came out with “oh I thought you believed in God [God created the earth in 7 days God] now” !!! — so now I don’t know they are hearing a thing I say


  • Carlos
    Participant

    Maybe it’s just me but I want to talk to everyone about this. Maybe I’m missing something :)


  • Alex
    Participant

    This is great! I want to talk but I it very difficult to express what I want to say. Much of my conversations are in my head hahaha. I think it helps to see that many conversations with people are similar, ever deeper conversations, because no one is mentioning the human condition, so when people say why they think something is happening, I try to introduce the human condition to them. Sometimes it is easy and sometimes it is difficult! I am finding it is quite progressive for my journey just to keep trying to talk about it. I tried with my brother and no way, so that is ok I don’t try him any more. I think I will get better at talking.


  • Aggie
    Participant

    This is so wonderful having this forum and it’s just so relieving to read other peoples’ experiences of digesting the information and wanting to share it with friends and family. I have been around this information for a long time. 17 years actually and so I have had varying experiences of robust discussions with family and friends that have resulted in no other family member or friend really making the effort to wrap their heads around the information to be able to share the journey of exploration with. That said the WTM has made HUGE achievements with the website and videos which will no doubt make the information so much more accessible. Through dialogue with WTM founding members I have had opportunity to express my frustrations ( with huge understanding and compassion from them) and appreciate that this project is so new, so pioneering, that it requires patience. I still bottom out on that frustration and wanting to share this with people I love but if I focus on what I CAN do then it really helps. I can send my love, support and feedback to the WTM members working so hard to get these ideas out, I can now participate on this amazing forum and support and join with all of you, I can be active on the FB page or other social media site, write book reviews and most importantly apply this information to myself and the world around me so that I can lead by example and be able to share this understanding with my children and future generations.


  • Mike
    Participant

    I too have been looking for ways to get the word out there. In my case I was drawn to Freedom from typing a question in to Google “When did Man get consciousness?” That led me to a sample of the book, then several weeks later I downloaded the full book and could not put it down.

    6 Years ago I lost my wife and began a journey that I believe most go on after the loss of a loved one, I was searching for the answer to the questions why how and of course who.

    I have since read many many books and watched 100’s of videos’ from scientific to metaphysical, from which I came to the understanding that “God” was not what he had been made out to be, and religion was man made and based on stories in books of repeated historical myths that lack evidence, make false claims and are contradictory. This taught me that we are responsible for ourselves and our own actions, there is no one else to blame.

    In my research on religion I have also read a lot, and I have also watched a lot of debates between atheists and theists on the topic of gods existence and religion, and in each debate the atheists have presented very sound information, that is until it comes to consciousness, where it came from and how we, the only species to have it, were the lucky ones.

    Love indoctrination, the need to protect our helpless young, females choosing younger gentler mates all resulting in the development of love … what a logical, non-genetic but humanistic concept that requires absolutely no requirement for a deity or higher power of any kind.

    I am sure you will all agree Jeremy has provided a solid scientific theory to answer the question, so I have taken the step to email each (atheist) debater I watch who need this answer in their toolbox; I make reference to the information in Freedom that gives will give them the answers they have been looking for. Some of these debaters include, Daniel Dennett, Lawrence Krauss, Dan Barker, Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris.

    I don’t expect to hear back from them telling me they have taken my advice and read the book, I look forward to hearing them reference it in future debates, or find out that they have made contact with Jeremy to learn more.

    I continue to send this type of email to them, as they have the public ear far more then I do, and if I can get just one of them on board then I hope we will have moved this theory along a little broader and quicker, as is should be.

    I can only imagine of we all did this on a regular basis, they would be forced to at least take a look, and not just with the people I have mentioned, but to all who actively discuss or debate the topic of life and or religion.

    I have to say the last target I would aim at would be those who are religious, changing their minds and views will only, in my opinion be achieved when a critical mass has understood the reality of who we are, and our human condition.

  • Stefan
    Stefan
    Participant

    I have to say that Mike’s story reminds me a lot mine. I haven’t lost anyone close to me, but reading many books and watching 100s of videos from scientific to metaphysical sounds like something I was doing too. And it’s kind of funny that I have also discovered FREEDOM by doing a Google search. In my case I couldn’t get Aldous Huxley’s Brave New World and the idea of human conditioning out of my head. I typed in “human conditioning” in the hope of finding someone else out there thinking about it. And then I discovered Jeremy and the WTM. I also started reading a sample chapter and read the complete book a couple of weeks later not being able to put it down. This is just such a huge relief for everyone of us searching for answers!

    That said, I agree that atheists could be highly interested in FREEDOM and the human condition, but I don’t think that religious people are any different in this regards. I mean yes, they are different because they already believe in something higher than themselves, but if you think about integrative meaning, you could say they are already right. They just call it god and believe in all this crazy stories because that’s everything religion can offer them. All they have to do now is read and understand the real explanation and realise how and why they have always been on the right track because all real religions are built around prophets speaking the truth. Like Jesus and also Muhammad (I guess), only that this time the prophet is a scientist and he can now explain what’s going on. It’s like religion only that it’s based on understanding rather than believing. That’s where religious people will have to change, but I think it’s safe to confirm them that they are already kind of right. The human condition is just this one last piece missing in their lives. They can now call their god integrative meaning and accept the implications of love-indoctrination to be the real reason for their deep conviction that they are ultimately good and not bad (which they already try to proof by being religious).

    Anyway, I finished reading FREEDOM about 4 months ago and had an ongoing dialogue with some WTM founding members just like Aggie and I can only confirm their huge understanding and compassion. Writing and speaking with people who already live with this information for many years has taught me that my thinking is still flawed at times and that’s why I could still be writing a lot of garbage, but just getting it out of my head and knowing that people will read it really helps a lot.

    I’m so grateful for this forum and for everyone of you participating in our journey to understanding. I can’t believe this is really happening :)))


    • Dave
      Participant

      Great idea getting the information out there.


  • Parsimony
    Participant

    Good initiatives Mike, we have to get this information out there. I have wondered how people like Richard Dawkins would go with Griffith’s thinking. Dawkins is really logical in his thinking, which is an asset when considering Griffith’s theory because it is so logical, but on the other hand Dawkins hates religion, which is the opposite of Griffith, who thinks it is full of truth, so I do wonder how he would go with it. But I guess ultimately Griffiths work brings science and religion together, so throwing these ideas into the centre of the debate between the two seems like a good idea. Keep us posted!


  • Ronald
    Participant

    The only person who doesn’t blank me when I mention the Human Condition is my eighteen year old grandson. He surprised me by getting back to me and suggested going through the Bible and substituting the words ” The Laws of Physics” for “God” and see if it still made sense. I haven’t had time to actually do it myself but I wonder what some of you Bible scholars would say ?

    “God” made heaven and earth …..?


  • Dave
    Participant

    Educating family and friends has been an ongoing issue for me. I have talked with my wife and kids a lot, but it’s hard to get them to read much. “The good’ as they call it is kind of a joke at our house, but they know I am serious about it and try to live it.

    The other day, my wife put out a tile on our counter with the saying: “BElieve THEre is GOOD in the world.” When we see someone trying to prove they are good she also immediately says: “That guy/gal really has the HC disease.” So I guess things are coming along. As a friend of mine used to say “repetition is the erosion of stubbornness”, so I will keep it up and try not to be pushy.

    The best part of understanding the HC for me is how it has improved my relationships with my family and mostly my wife. For me, the two most important things are getting my kids to understand the human condition so they can live happier lives and for my wife to learn more about male and female reactions to the human conditions so we understand and love one another even more. To me, the most HC impact will be helping teens in resignation and in improving spousal relationships. If spouses are on the same page the kids will follow, and the family will be happier.

    I also use human condition information about Adam Stork as part of an extra credit assignment (one page essay) in the classes I teach. It has been interesting to read the responses. I would be interested to know if any of the students dug deeper outside of class.


    • Oliver
      Participant

      I really like your post. The extra credit assignment is a particularly good opportunity you’ve created for spreading the ideas.

    • Stefan
      Stefan
      Participant

      I love your story too – especially the parts about the HC disease and “The Good”. What a simple way of putting things into context. On one hand there is the old way of living (with HC disease) and on the other there is this new way (with “The Good”). I really hope it’s working for you and wish you all the best – everything sounds great so far!

      And I’d love to read the Adam Stork responses too. How old are the students you teach? And what are you telling them to do? If you have a minute, please share your assignment. I don’t have to read the students’s responses (they’re confidential anyway, I guess), but I’m curious about how to integrate any of this information into teaching. Thanks!


    • Dave
      Participant

      Thanks for the reply. I teach at a university. The assignment is an add-on/extra credit assignment with a discussion about science and religion.

      I did not include the science and religion discussion info, but the HC “bonus” follows:

      BONUS: You can earn an additional 10 points extra credit by also doing a 1/2 page summary of the information at this webpage: http://www.humancondition.com/freedom-the-story-of-adam-stork?scroll_to=adam%20stork&scroll_num=1. This information describes how science can be used to help us understand human behaviors such as religion. Please submit your 1/2 page summary by email by Oct 10.

    • Stefan
      Stefan
      Participant

      Thank you! I especially love the clarity in your final statement that science can be used to help us understand human behaviors such as religion. I mean it’s true – finally science can explain religion. And it even explains itself (why we had to invent science in the first place). It reminds me of how good this Adam Stork story really is.

      I’m teaching at a university too and I’m wondering about how to include any of these topics during our classes. I wasn’t brave enough yet to talk about it in front of the students (with one exception), but I’m thinking about including it in my next presentation on Thursday. I’ll post an update if I have something interesting to share.


    • Dave
      Participant

      In the intro part of the class I ask the question: “Where Did I Come From.”

      The discussion then includes Deep time, Big Bang, origin of elements, stars and earth, and the origin of the ocean, atmos and life. At the end of this intro section there are about 5 slides on the HC and human behavior. I try to be fair and also compare HC with the prevailing/Wilson type HC view, but I end with a short challenge of going out and observing how people behave. If you understand Adam Stork its easy to see people going about proving they are good.


  • Billie A
    Participant

    I enjoyed reading everyone’s posts! I may not have got any of my family to become members of the WTM but they sure are supportive of what it’s done for me (words can’t say how much it’s helped me) and that it totally makes sense of everything when I explain stuff to them (if I do a good enough job!). They know it’s really profound and it’s really special and that the WTM is a totally selfless organisation whose only focus is to end the suffering and that I love it. And so I try to just keep the truth about the HC alive in me and keep close to the WTM and anyone who can reinforce the new thinking that I know is possible now, and that then helps everyone around me. Kind of like what you’re all saying. It’s such an amazing discovery and there’s so much to talk about and you just want EVERYONE to know about this, so it is frustrating but I’ve learnt to be patient with this new time in history whilst it’s getting started around the world and that one day it’s gonna go like fireworks everywhere and I just focus on that !!! And do all I can to help spread the word in the meantime. Great to have this forum!


  • judy66
    Participant

    I have just come from the forum on men and women, and so it seemed that commenting here as well was a sensible thing to do. I was saying just what a big step accepting that men’s egocentricity has been valid (for want of a better word) has been. And so in terms of personal relationships, the real change for me has been in understanding my husband. I have tried to talk to him about the actual information but he isn’t really interested, which is a bit disapointing, but that doesnt mean that what I have learned about men hasn’t had a powerful affect on our relationship. I suppose it just amounts to having a lot more empathy for his position. And from there, to be able to understand all men, in fact the whole world. This information really does change how you view everything, and how it effects yourself. Anyway, the chapter in Freedom about men and women is 8:11b and I recommend it to everyone!


    • Alex Dobban
      Participant

      That’s a great thing to read Judy, that you can understand men better. My wife and I have been reading this stuff for a few years and we have our personal journey with it that naturally carries over to our relationship. I’m not sure we’d be together without it. Cause I know she uses the explanation of why men do behave they do and I visa versa to understand her. Actually now on thinking about that I think we’d still be together but we’d just be kind of bumbling along on paths that wound in out of each other but really in our own worlds. This brings you together at such a deep level it’s quite extraordinary.

  • Shak
    Shak
    Participant

    My personal interaction with life as a whole is formed out of self actualising intentionality.and over time my knowledge/insight has grown and continues to expand as it is my belief that identifying potentialities of self understanding/experience and manifesting that which is more qualitative,subjective..offers a more complete understanding of one self and the construct – paradigm /environment..
    like the non- inclusive…and oppressive paradigm that can not manifest true representations existing in diverse/complex processes that encompass all components of societal whole due to the fact by developmental structure its lack of complexity excludes collections of individuals who then become subject to to oppression by blind followers of hidden influences that are placed as such so people assume the knowledge is true and valid without question……..
    CONSIDER THIS NOTION.. somebody else’s beliefs/thoughts governance for understanding the current everthing (are incomplete lacking inclusivity) and then assumed without question by the general population as true reality
    is it then any wonder that they do not share your enthusiasm…you show explain encourage because ” he who see knows “the frustration lies in having to be subject to attack by ideas/people that are false in every element of their consideration.
    is is our responsibility as the the self aware “evolvers”..to commit illuminating knowledge experience and thought and together manifesting a collective intentionality to promote change


  • Mairi
    Participant

    Everybody’s reality is different where u are in your life isn’t necesarily where every one else’ is And every one is correct where they are . But we get so frustrated when no one wants to listen. We are so quick to judge and convict but don’t forget so are they . Lord I might be so wrong but didn’t it explain in chapter 1.4 deafness. We seem to be ignoring the first lessons.

    I don’t know wether anyone out there has studied the I Ching one of Confucius teachings is if you want to help! When talking about a a relevant subject IE slip in the words I think I read something about that in the book on freedom and then DONT give them time to ask questions lol quickly change the subject . but sometimes if they really want to know they will come back and ask or look it up themselves.
    That old saying you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink is true. But you have open ears if they ask and we don’t get too heavy on the knowledge, The thing I’m struggling with is people are using complicated words and I have to use a dictionary and then I shrug my shoulders and give up. Scientific people etc know what words are but us uneducated people don’t and so we just Give up. ?We have to remember 4 generations ugh If there is still a world then..


  • Susy
    Participant

    WTM Centres are opening around the world and I’ve been sending links to their various websites to my family and friends trying to understand the work of the WTM more, and it’s been of great help to them, especially the short videos by the people who have established each Centre. Links for some of the Centres are below. Hope they help your family and friends too! Would love to hear the feedback people get!
    WTM UK Centre established by Roz Bachl
    https://www.wtmcentreuk.com/
    WTM WTM South African Centre established by James Moffett

    Front Page


    WTM New Zealand Centre established by Pete Sadler
    https://www.wtmcentrenz.com/


  • Lesley
    Participant

    Luckily I have been on a journey of understanding and spirituality with my husband who is trying so hard to listen even though I sometimes get raised eyebrows when he thinks I’m going down the rabbit hole too deep. When I emerge we discuss and off we go again. My grown up kids have been slowly joining in as well, but at a slower pace. Odd that me and my hubbie are less resistant to dumping our beliefs than those younger. You’d think it would be the other way around. Even the grandchildren are getting to hear views and ideas outside of the mainstream. Although the seven year old thought talking about the earth possibly being flat was worth a weird face and a laugh. We all now discuss some very strange subject matter. I am fairly sure my siblings would think us insane but I don’t even go there. It’s not up to me to try to change people’s beliefs. I’m of the opnion that the changes will come and it’s not for us to worry, but to have fun and a lack of fear.


    • Tommy
      Participant

      I’m not sure that I follow everything you are saying Lesley but I do relate to the amazing journey of logical enlightenment once you start absorbing this breakthrough biological explanation of the human condition. It is extraordinary to finally be able to make sense of life around you and within you and it’s wonderful that you are sharing that with your loved ones. I can’t send you enough encouragement and hope we hear from you again on the Forum as you further digest Jeremy’s books. I’m sure you’ve come across the interview with the Australian broadcaster and journalist Brian Carlton where he wonderfully expresses his journey with this information, but in case not I’ve included an extract that I love below that’s in Freedom (para 94), and an extract of the video below that. Your husband and family might enjoy it too. I love it. All the best Lesley!

      ‘I remember when I first read one of your books I went through a stage where I couldn’t quite get my head around it. I got about half of it and it was a little confusing and a little dense but I didn’t give up. And in time your explanations did start to become clear and it made a hell of a lot of sense to me…The process of stripping off the denial is the difficult part, but once you’ve done that the answers become glaringly obvious…It’s an intellectual epiphany; I have a more complete understanding of myself, everybody around me, the society at large, the way the planet works. It’s a revelation! I don’t use that in a religious sense, it’s a quantifiably different thing but it has a similar impact on you. You wake up the next morning feeling more invigorated, more able to deal with the world because your level of understanding of it is so much higher…It’s very simple, it’s not hard. The end process is easy and reassuring and calming and self-accepting. Getting there is the difficult bit, once you have the revelation, the clarity of it is euphoric almost…when you get it, it is an event. You remember the day, you remember the section of the book, you remember when it happened, it stays with you…Don’t underestimate the extent to which your work has impacted me in terms of how I think about what I’m seeing, how I interpret behaviour. I worked up this ability to be able to work out what a person was like in the first five or six seconds of a conversation [as the host of a talk-back radio program]…​the trickle-down transfer to every day life and every day human relationships and experiences has been hugely valuable.’


  • Tara38
    Participant

    The frustration grows the more you keep going down the rabbit hole. I have tried to simply use this knowledge to show people how great life can be with this concept. Then it automatically gets people asking you what it is that you know that they don’t!!


  • Tommy
    Participant

    HI Tara, I think it’s important to keep the context of how massive paradigm shift in thinking for humanity is, that certainly helps me. As Jeremy writes in Freedom in para 1184: “Humans typically take months, if not years, to adjust to big changes in our lives, so in this massive paradigm shift, which takes us from a position where we didn’t face any truth about our corrupted condition to facing the prospect of having all the truth about it exposed, we have to accept that it will be a process that will take generations”. Some people initially ‘hear’ this information more easily than others so the whole journey certainly does require lots of time and patience. I’ve seen this counsel in other places on the Forum that although it may take some time for people to realise that this information is what it says it is as with any new scientific breakthrough in history, once it catches on, the infectious enthusiasm and selfless love it liberates will spread like wildfire! Everyone will see how wonderful life is once you understand the human condition as you are discovering Tara, it’s just going to take some time so it is challenging but don’t give up! All your and everyone’s efforts to talk about and spread this information will pay off big time. There’s lots of stuff on this website to help family and friends, like the videos on the WTM’s homepage or the Freedom Essays, that you might find helpful too. All the best.


  • Roger
    Participant

    Gosh this has been an amazing thread and I relate to so many of the comments people have made but I think it was Susy who said she was using the videos and writing presented on the various WTM websites to explain the human condition to friends and family.
    In the excitement of the time you first hear this explanation it’s easy to forget just how difficult a subject the human condition is and how psychologically tangled up we are.
    Given Jeremy Griffith has been writing about the human condition for 40 years or so it just makes sense to use the explanation he has presented so beautifully well.


  • transistor
    Participant

    Let them see the book. If it sucks them in, then it’s ordained. If they don’t understand it if you shove it in their face, it’s ordained. It’s not their time to breathe Jeremies words and see the truth.