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    • Mo
      Participant

      I think I read what implies that the author is open to even more refinement of his presentation. which parts,ideas, or statements in the book you think needs more scientific refinement? Do you think that the deaf effect can be a double edge sword that can undermine constructive analysis?


    • nomad
      Participant

      Hi Mo,
      In regard to whether the deaf effect explanation can undermine constructive analysis, there are situations known as ‘non-falsifiable hypotheses’, where if you disagree with a theory you can be said to be proving the theory. However, what is so significant about this info that the WTM is presenting, in particular that humans live in great fear of the human condition, is that you can verify for yourself the logic and evidence being put forward. As they explain in FAQ 1.10, ‘the ultimate test is how accountable it is of our own lives’. We humans are the subjects of this biological treatise on the human condition ‘which means we can experience, feel and know the truthfulness or otherwise of the explanations’ —so we undertake our own constructive analysis of it. In freedom essay 13 under the heading ‘Part 5: Is this hypothesis testable?’ this is all discussed further which you may find helpful to read.

      I would suggest that the reason the WTM say they are dedicated to making their presentations as accessible as possible is not to do with the book needing more scientific refinement, in my opinion the scientific rigour of this information can not be faulted—I would argue it is a million mile ahead of anything else. What I see as the bottom line is that the very nature of the human condition means that people can have a great deal of difficulty initially accessing or ‘hearing’ the explanations because the issue of the human condition has been the most terrifying of subjects to face and we have lived in almost total denial of it. We just had no choice as a species. While we didn’t have the biological understandings of how genes and nerves work we couldn’t explain why we had corrupted our species’ original state of innocent togetherness. We had absolutely no choice but to live in denial of our corrupted condition, our ‘fall from grace’. As the great philosopher Plato described it we had to hide deep in his ‘cave’ of darkness. So when we do finally find the redeeming biological explanation of our corrupted condition, which the WTM presents, we are naturally going to have to go through a process of shock at having all the truth revealed about ourselves, which is ‘the deaf effect’. It just makes sense that that would happen. The WTM didn’t invent the deaf effect as a way of defeating any arguments against, it really is just the fact of the situation. Plato even predicted that ‘deafness’ would be so great we initially wouldn’t be able to hear ‘a single one of the things we were now told were real!’.

      I can certainly attest to this journey and I really like freedom essay 11 because it has some great counsel of how to overcome the deaf effect, a simple case of ‘patient perseverence’ which calmly erodes the deep-seated fear, and there are also some pertinent quotes from people who have done just that. It just takes a while to appreciate how denial works and then the impact it has on the way we respond to this stuff but it’s very worth the journey Mo to say the least, and I hope you continue your interest.


    • Mo
      Participant

      So I copied the following from freedom essay 27. ” BUT while sex was an attack on innocence, an act of aggression, it was also one of the greatest distractions and releases of frustration and, on a nobler level, it became an inspirational act of love, an act of real affection derived from a shared faith in the ultimate meaning of their lives. A sublime partnership between men and women did develop, for when all the world disowned men for their unavoidable divisiveness, women, in effect, stayed with them, bringing them the only warmth, comfort and support they would know.” So when yo state what has been stated in these sentences; dont you think without more scientific explanation, it can leave you confused to a certain extent.


      • nomad
        Participant

        In my experience Mo, this information brings about the most massive new paradigm of knowledge that there ever could be, and just how much there is to get your head around cannot be overstated. Just as with any new concept or course you have to build from the basic, core information before considering the more advanced, otherwise it will certainly leave you confused for sure. So I agree with your statement above that this paragraph alone requires more biological explanation, but that biological explanation is all presented in the introductory videos & previous chapters in Freedom, in other words, presented alone it is out of context. Understanding the role of men and women under the whole human condition requires an understanding of what the human condition is, and what produced it, all presented in video/essay 3 which the essay you quote from references first. It then requires an understanding of the different biological roles men and women historically took up in the human journey presented in the previous essay 26 and in Chapter 8 of F, and then how this knowledge actually brings about an honest dialogue and true reconciliation of the sexes for the first time etc. This is very powerful and confronting biological treatise Mo and from my experience it needs to be considered in the safe and full context in which it is presented.


    • Mo
      Participant

      Thanks for your reply Nomad, I actually pretty much read the whole book, And I have high appreciation for the information presented in the book, it’s just maybe that the information in the book is so precious that it requires attention to every detail on how it is translated in word. From the sentences I copied in my previous post, I got the impression that what it is trying to say is that sex and aggression is ONE, then that was followed by positive connotations around that issue so that people can swallow it. I dont know but I think perceiving it this way can be very misleading, I admit that it might be me who is not perceiving what is being coveyed properly. Again I want to emphasise my high appreciation for the book and I am in high hope that it has what it takes to transform us to free peaceful people.


      • nomad
        Participant

        Great to hear Mo that you’ve nearly finished Freedom and how much you are benefiting from it. I couldn’t agree more how important it is that we each verify this informtion for ourselves, because it is that grounding in the basic information that allows us to see that it does finally bring meaningful understanding to all manner of mystery including the realtionship between men and women which has caused so much hurt, pain and confusion for a milennia.

        The truth is that the human condition has unavoidably resulted in the almost total corruption of our lives and the relationship between men and women is no exception. Most significantly though, this information brings total defence to our upset revealing that it’s the most heroic and meaningful state imaginable. So with regard to men and women’s sexual relations what Griffith explains is that while the corruption of human sex is true, the full story is that the relationship between men and women is sublime; Griffith is not writing this with the intention of making it palatable; his only intention is to present the truth, which is that there has been very good reason for sex and aggression—and his only motivation in doing so, is to bring an end to it. Men had to take up the horrific job of searching for knowledge, and women came with them to be ‘the only warmth, comfort and support they would know’, and despite all the excruciating pain and hardship that that journey caused to both sexes we have arrived where ‘that march into hell for a heavenly cause’ is fulfilled. The greater meaning to men and women’s story is overwhelmingly beautiful. And most important of all, with understanding of it the whole horrific journey can end. As Jeremy says at the end of freedom essay 27, ‘Thank goodness with the battle to defeat the ignorance of our instinctive moral soul now won, the horror of both men’s and women’s existence can end, and this dreamed-of ‘new time’ where society will be neither matriarchal or patriarchal, but gender-neutral and at peace, can begin…With understanding of the human condition now found, men and women can at last stand side by side.’

        The significance of the explanation of the human condition will I believe transform us to your high hope of free peaceful people Mo.


    • Linda Susan
      Participant

      Hello,
      I’ve just watched a wonderful introductory video to Jeremy Griffith’s Book.
      All sorts of images and thoughts flashed through my mind.
      First and foremost my own agonizing struggles with religion.
      The saving grace of the works of Carl Jung and Joseph Campbell, especially Campbell’s The Masks of God and the tv series The Power of Myth.
      Jeremy Griffith’s talk reminded me of one of Nietzche’s statements: ‘Be careful lest in casting out your devil that you may cast out the best part of yourself’.
      If we can go through the necessary Baptism of Fire and survive such a terrifying trial then we can come to comprehend the true character of the Shadow within each one of us and assimilate its’ import.
      I love the African reference to the man who set out on his search for the White Bird and how, during the course of this arduous journey knew he was dying. As he was dying one single white feather floated down and lay gently upon him.
      I have all of T.S.Elliot’s poems but my favorite is The Four Quartets – ‘When the Flame and the Rose shall be one’
      I am so very heartened by all that I have heard of Jeremy Griffith’s book and look forward to studying it.
      To sense that our biological natures and the physics of the new science will cohere to reconcile so many warring dimensions of our human
      condition is so completely inspiring.
      For so long I have felt that The Myth of Sisyphus was the only possible way to understand the human struggle. That belief is now obsolete.
      With the magnificent guidance and inspiration offered my Jeremy Griffith I now feel that the path is more enlightened than ever before.
      We must Never ‘cease from exploration’ and ‘to know the place for the first time’ will be our faithful, fruitful and true fulfillment.
      Thank you, thank you, thank you.


    • Susy
      Participant

      We seem to be on the Forum at the same time Linda Susan! I hope you saw my reply to you on your wonderful earlier posts on the Religion v human condition thread. Your life’s journey has obviously been a deep and thoughtful one and finding this information will be a truly amazing, ‘faithful, fruitful and true fulfillment’ just as it is for the whole human species now! The passages you quote are perfect and very beautiful, “Never ‘cease from exploration’ and ‘to know the place for the first time’”, now the human condition is solved, we can return to our conscience or soul’s home but this time in a conscious state, the two factions within us reconciled! ‘When the Flame and the Rose shall be one’ – – EXACTLY! And that ‘our biological natures and the physics of the new science will cohere to reconcile so many warring dimensions of our human condition is so completely inspiring.’ What was needed on Earth to stop the destruction of ourselves and our planet was redeeming understanding of the human condition – – of our destructive and upset state – – and that is what the WTM has provided! We can finally “‘comprehend the true character of the Shadow within each one of us and assimilate its’ import’”, we can understand our shadow or upset state now and it has had immense meaning and importance while we searched for knowledge, we are upset but we are good! It’s been one hell of a journey, which is all in the beautiful African fable of the man setting out to search for the white bird of truth, and to think we are living in that day when it is all realised IS just so exciting! This is an incredible quote from ‘Transform Your Life’: ‘So while you might have seen some wonderful things in your life, like fields of flowers or gorgeous sunrises or music festivals of people dancing, you won’t have seen anything even remotely as incredible, wonderful and joyous as the human race coming home together to peace and happiness!’ Enjoy your reading Linda!!


    • Mo
      Participant

      In Freedom the following explanation of conciousness was presented

      “This consciousness is a product of the nerve-based learning system’s ability to remember, for it is memory that allows understanding of cause and effect to develop. To elaborate, nerves were originally developed as connections for the coordination of movement in multicellular animals. An incidental by-product of the development of nerves was that of memory. The actual mechanism by which nerves are able to store impressions is not yet fully understood although we know it involves chemical processes. What is important is that nerves do have the capacity for memory because once you have memory you have the ability to develop understanding of cause and effect”

      Does anyone have knowledge or insight on how the nerves are able to store impressions?


    • PaulM
      Participant

      Griffith is correct that memory is essentially a by-product of the action of nerves. He is also correct that the mechanisms by which this occurs is not yet fully understood. For an introduction to the subject I would recommend the following Australian website: https://qbi.uq.edu.au/brain-basics/memory/how-are-memories-formed. And the following paper represents a technical summary of the current thinking in the field, with a particular focus on the role of the synapse: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnsys.2018.00052/full.


    • Mo
      Participant

      Thanks Nomad for your support. Thanks Paul for sharing those links. So I read the paper you shared, of course its full of scientific terms and I don’t have the full scientific grasp to understand the full spectrum of the paper, but one criticism for the hebbian theory is that memory may be sub molecular in nature, and actually the writers of the paper didn’t really disagree with that, what they said is that this criticism is correct but incomplete. In my opinion in the realm of memories we come in touch with what is “omnipresent”. So even though spiritual teachings have some dangerously wrong interpretation, I cant see to what extent jeremy’s explanation can satisfy our spiritual curiosity. Thanks again.


    • PaulM
      Participant

      My understanding is that Griffith would say that we have an instinctive memory of our ‘time in paradise’, which are altuistic or loving instincts developed through the love-indoctrination process. And because he says the ultimate meaning of the universe is altruism or love (or God or Negative Entropy or Integrative meaning), then this instinctive memory is totally in-synch with what we have historically described as ‘spiritual’.

      It did take me some time to appreciate that Negative Entropy could encompass our normal ideas of spirituality, but like all of Griffith’s work it takes some digestion time. This FAQ may further help you Mo, it has a handy summary under the heading, “Does the scientific explanation of ‘God’ really contain all the attributes of religion’s metaphysical ‘God’?” and includes explanation of how the ‘omnipresent’ attribute is confirmed with this demystifying explanation.
      https://www.humancondition.com/wtm-faq-what-is-the-integrative-meaning-of-life-and-god-repeat/

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