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Home Forums General Discussion Near Death Community Similarities with the WTM

This topic contains 3 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  DaveH 4 months ago.

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  • Dave
    Participant

    I am wondering if anyone has noticed similarities between the WTM/HC explanations and Near Death Experiences (NDEs). A couple of years or so ago my mom got dementia and I started reading about death and NDEs and what to expect.

    The NDE community seems to believe that consciousness is separate from us and exists after we die. Many people experiencing NDEs relate stories full of unconditional love and light, and also of order in the universe tying everything together. Many people tie these feelings and experiences to God, spirituality and a strong connection with Heaven. The NDE community also sees evil and good, whereas WTM/HC sees good and evil in all of us due to the HC.

    Jeremy Griffith elegantly explains the HC in a science way (explained without a need for a supernatural power/ God), but many of the WTM/HC ideas seem very similar to the ideas and feelings expressed by the NDE community. For example, JG explains how things in the universe have organized naturally over time (BB, stars, planets, life etc.) ending with love. Jeremy also explains our psychologically upset condition in terms of our loving instincts in conflict with the conscious mind.

    Here are a couple of quotes from the book Proof of Heaven by Eben Alexander, a neuroscientist that had a NDE.

    “There is a sense in which all losses what we undergo on Earth are in truth variations of one central absolute loss: the loss of Heaven.”
    “None of us are ever unloved. Each and every one of us is deeply known and cared for by a Creator who cherishes beyond any ability we have to comprehend. That knowledge must not remain a secret.”

    “But free will comes at the cost of a loss or falling-away from this love and acceptance. We are free, but we are free beings hemmed all around by an environment conspiring to us feel we are not free.”

    “The subliminal thinking that is always there, when we really need it, but that we have all too often lost the ability to access and believe in.”

    “Our truest deepest self if completely free. It is not crippled or compromised by past actions or concerned with identify or status. It comprehends that it has no need to fear the world, and therefore, it has not need to build itself up through fame or wealth or conquest.”
    “How do we get closer to this genuine spiritual self? By manifesting love and compassion. Why? Because love and compassion are far more than the abstractions many of us believe them to be. They are real. They are concrete. And they make up the very fabric of the spiritual realm.”

    As you can see, I really enjoy reading about the NDE community and its ideas. I think they have a lot to offer and it all seems very similar to WTM/HC information. They come at the HC ideas in a much different direction, but in many ways make similar conclusions. In my mind NDEs seem to offer another line of evidence supporting JG and the WTM! The NDE community just doesn’t have the WTM understanding and background.

    Also, thanks a lot to the wonderful people of the WTM that host this webpage and are my friends.

    • This topic was modified 8 months ago by  Dave.

  • Susy
    Participant

    Hi Dave, Jeremy explains near death experiences in Freedom, see paras 997 and 1200 and I have included para 997 below, as I think it will be interesting for others to read here. Jeremy’s explanation of the human condition makes clear to me how much deep fear we all live in of the whole subject, and how utterly preoccupied we are in keeping away from it and proving our sense of self worth. So it makes total sense to me that when people survive a terrible near death experience, the mind, in that moment, gives up on denial and worrying in general and they experience the joy of what it is like to be free of the whole horror of the human condition, and the true world of our soul surfaces. Anyway Jeremy says it much better here!:

    “What occurs during a so-called Near-Death Experience actually illustrates what is occurring in some minds that have completely dissociated from reality. For instance, mountain climbers who survive falls that they were convinced would be fatal (they were saved, perhaps, by landing in a snow drift) often report that during those near-death moments they experienced a state of extraordinary euphoria in which the world suddenly appeared utterly beautiful and radiant and that they were flooded with a feeling of ecstatic enthrallment. With understanding of the horror of the human condition we can appreciate how, in such cases, the mind would give up worrying, and that all the facades—in particular the denial they adopted at Resignation—would become meaningless. If death is seemingly imminent, there is no longer any reason to worry or to pretend, at which point the struggle and agony and pretence of having to live under the duress of the human condition ceases and the true world of our all-sensitive soul suddenly surfaces. So yes, ‘savant genius lie[s] dormant deep inside everyone’s brain’. The Superman mythology is an expression of humans’ suppressed awareness of their alienated state—that resigned humans are Clark Kents with hidden Superman potential (news reporter Clark Kent being Superman’s civilian identity).”

    So yes, as I use Jeremy’s understanding to interpret them, I think the quotes you have there from the neuroscientist have pieces of truth in them, like the ‘loss of heaven’ is the loss of our soulful world, which is our ‘genuine spiritual self’, and in that real world we are all connected and ‘loved’ by integrative meaning (which Jeremy explains in ch 4, the theme or meaning of existence is cooperative selflessness/love, which we have personified as ‘God’). I think the thing to emphasise though which you point to at the end, is that the NDE community clearly does not have understanding of the human condition. What I have come to see as so terribly important is that ONLY that UNDERSTANDING of WHY we lost our soulful/’spiritual’ selves in the first place, of why we are ‘not free’, why we feel ‘unloved’, why we need ‘fame or wealth or conquest’ and why that has actually been SO IMPORTANT in the human journey – will truly set us free. Only understanding of ourselves, answering all these fundamental questions will bring about lasting change. It really is amazing what Jeremy Griffith has brought to the planet, this reconciling, redeeming, deeply penetrating information that makes sense of and defends our upset, and thus transforming ourselves and our planet, and finally, legitimately does bring us all home to the soul’s world again. I’m with you Dave, I’m so thankful for the wonderful people at the WTM and the work that they do.


  • Dave
    Participant

    Suzy, Thanks for the reply and pointing out the section in Freedom that addresses NDEs. As you indicate, people experiencing NDEs seem to have tapped into the denial free world without the HC, but they still don’t understand why. Though they don’t know why, to me it seems the experiences are just one more line of evidence supporting Freedom. Freedom really does address all aspects of the human experience. JG and Freedom changed my life by giving me the understanding needed to access a little bit of the love inside myself and others.


  • DaveH
    Participant

    Dave, good topic. I think it’s important to keep in mind that JG has provided a scientific and biological understanding of the reasons for the dire situation (Human Condition) we have ended up in. Therefore, every topic is covered from this biological perspective.

    Although I completely accept and agree with everything JG has presented in FREEDOM regarding the HC, I do so from that biological perspective. For me, FREEDOM does not provide the answer to ‘life, the universe, and everything’ (as Douglas Adams would put it). For me there is a bigger picture beyond physical existence which cannot be described and answered from a scientific or biological perspective specifically because physical existence is (for me) a subset of the bigger picture.

    (For a scientific investigation into the bigger picture I would recommend My Big Toe by the physicist Thomas Campbell.)

    Cheers, Dave H.