Home Forums General Discussion Religion vs Human Condition: Different Angle

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    • GKroucamp

      Through million years of development of the humans into different cultural groups, by logic insight, all cultures formed the same Base line of Positives and Negatives. Following then that:
      Positive can be seen as Good or God, and
      Negative can be seen as Bad or Evil/Satan.

      In truth, not to differentiate between cultures, but between Positives and Negatives and remove Negatives to get to the conclusion of All Positive, which end up being All Loving.

      This from True Religious view point. At least my opinion of what it must be.

      In 2009, I came to ask: What and who am I, and man?, for that matter.
      By mentally dividing flesh from spirit and evaluate the to seperately:
      Man as fleshly being need fisicle food and focus on worldly thoughts.
      Man as spiritual being need knowledge for food and focus on the spiritual thoughts.

      The questions of: What is God?, and; What is Jesus?, Came to mind.
      Following in the Bible, Ephesians an Gallasians you realize that God is a Personality. Jesus Christ is the Producer of that Personality, meaning Good or God in action.

      Let’s go to Blaise Pascal the French philosopher. He formulated a wager going something like this: ‘God can’t be proved. But if God exists, the believer gains everything and the unbeliever loses everything. If God doesn’t exist, the believer loses nothing and the unbeliever gains nothing. There is therefore everything to gain and nothing to lose by believing in God!’
      The math and the philosophy in this is true. At least try and believe in God.

      Another of Blaise’s statements was something like this: ‘ every man their is a vacuum that only God can fill…’

      When you dive into the Mythology of Religion you find a figure called Mithra. This spiritual figure occurred about 2000 years before Jesus Christ, the Jesus came and out calendar adjust to year 0. Now, at this time we find ourselves 2000 years after Jesus.
      According Mythology the philosophical history of Jesus Christ is based on the philosophical history of this Mithra. Many similarities exist between the life’s history of the two individuals.

      It comes back to us and our Bibles and what we belief.

      Question to ask: What is God?, Where is God?, What is Jesus Christ?, Where is Jesus Christ?
      By finding answers to these, you will see the light, you will see the Love of God.

      Ephesians and Gallasians, show the positive actions to commit to, which show Personality.

      We need act from our positive personality to please our Soul Positively, then we tend to “nearer to God” as the song states.

      Considering these retrievals from the past, our history, and all available Religious (Science) Knowledge, then you find an equivalences to Jeremy’s FREEDOM works/goal.

      In this you find that now Science (Knowledge) and Philosophy (Religion) is coming together.

      Well that is what my logic and insight from the combination of all categories of information is showing me.

    • Tommy

      It sounds like you have been on quite an amazing journey over the last 10 years GKroucamp! I wasn’t deeply questioning things at all when I stumbled across this information some time ago now, so I admire you greatly that you were and that you kept the search for truth open. It is just astonishing with this biological explanation the way it just keeps making sense of everything you look at in yourself and in the world. I’ve seen someone describe it as a feast of knowledge and that’s exactly what it feels like!

      I like what you say about all cultures coming from the same base line, that makes sense to me as we are all from the same species on exactly the same journey. It reminded me of the book Jeremy quotes from Richard Heinburg called ‘Memories & Visions of Paradise’, there’s a really good section on it in freedom essay4. And I couldn’t agree more that religion and science are now reconciled and it’s so very important that they are.

      When you use the terms of the division of spirit and flesh I understand that to mean what Jeremy calls our soul/conscience which is our original all-loving, ‘spritual’ instinctive self, and our mind/intellect that went out in search for knowledge and became upset. The most amazing thing for me is that the ‘negative’ from our upset has now been biologically explained and defended, and we can see that it wasn’t really ‘bad’ afterall and actually all occurred for an amazingly heroic reason. It is such a profound turn around. Our loving ‘positive’ soul and our mind are finally reconciled and indeed even with the whole direction or purpose of life which Jeremy explains as Integrative Meaning (personfied as God)! (By the way if you haven’t already, I found the essays on God (23) and Christ (39) very enlightening and helpful too). Anyway it’s all huge stuff and a lot to adjust to but as you say you just keep following the logic with this stuff and keep applying it to your own experiences and insights and it will just never disappoint you. All the best GKroucamp!

    • Linda Susan

      thank you for this forum.
      In relation to Religion vs Human Condition, one particular point came to mind.
      I value the work of the late Joseph Campbell.
      I love his recognition that ‘God is an intelligible sphere whose center is everywhere and circumference nowhere’.
      It would be very reductionist to simply say that the idea of ‘God’ is man-made.
      Even the late Christopher Hitchens, whose intellectual incisiveness was cutting, expressed the importance of the
      distinction between the supernatural and the spiritual. He loved the works of Milton and the truly spiritual works of
      the mystical poets John Donne and George Herbert. He called his experience of this aesthetic dimension the Numinous Transcendental.
      So, perhaps there is no need, in this context, to imagine Religion vs Human condition.
      A more holistic sense of the human condition would incorporate these dimensions of experience almost as an aspiring drawing towards higher
      forms of consciousness. This may be a kind of teleological longing towards more and more understandings of what humankind can be.
      I don’t see that any break should occur between the religious and the human condition. Mythologies delve very deeply into the human psyche.

    • Linda Susan

      I’m feeling quite confused and thought I might expand a bit on this question or topic: The Human Condition vs Religion.
      I was born into an Irish Catholic family. My father was a conventional, conservative or just the usual traditionalist type of believer of his era.
      I had great difficulty with this God question. So much so that it was overwhelming me. I loathed and resented the tomes of doctrinaire imperatives that were poisoning my sense of freedom. I had some traumatic psychological fractures over this whole question and knew that I would have to just abandon the God of this western world. Felix culpa/mea culpa .
      Anyhow, I threw HIM over after immense internal struggles. My ego was free and I felt liberated from the yoke of this particular God.
      I remember a great quote from Woody Allen – ‘Ok, so I can’t help it if I have a faulty denial mechanism’. I could’t have known how relevant this statement would be on so many different levels.
      I went through an agonizing cycle of building various defensive mechanisms to reinforce my egocentric flaws and none of these ‘death’ ‘resurrection’ sequences was working. I thought that if I could just create a perfectly functioning ego then I would be successful.
      My old brain impulses and instincts were powerful. My reasoning faculties were marginal attempts to reign in such primitive drives but all to no avail.
      The cultural requirements seemed to value success, status, and the concomitant paraphernalia.
      It just wasn’t me – but who or What was me, I, the individual, the subject, the self -just WHAT was identity?
      I have great difficulty in viewing the human animal species as totally biological beings. Even if physics uncovers more and more mysterious energy fields the question in my mind is What is Consciousness, what is the nature of the conscious mind?
      I can understand LOVE – from a sense of the bond of mother/child/family/tribe as the natural affections and affinities that, given the right environment are potentially all embracing of all sentient life and the life-world in which we are immersed.
      But what is the essential nature of the atoms, molecules and physiology of it all and can all these inherent properties incorporate what we call imagination?
      How can religion, as myth (and what is the meaning of these myths) be creatively reconciled with today’s scientific understandings.
      Is there hope for a totality of comprehension?
      I still hold to the ‘truth’ or just perhaps the longing of St.Thomas Aquinas – Being, The One, The True, The Good and The Beautiful.
      But I feel almost as if I am perpetually changing camp from biological understandings of our human condition and religious/mythological meanings.

    • Susy

      There is a lot of integrity in your thinking Linda Susan, and this holistic, teleological, biological understanding will be the missing key to fit together all these different pieces floating around in your mind. Your obviously life-long ‘hope for a totality of comprehension’ (and what a lovely phrase) has finally arrived for the human race! And it is true liberation for the mind Linda of all ‘doctrines’, to quote Jeremy, this information ‘represents the end of faith and dogma and the beginning of knowing’! To be honest I really think you need to read Jeremy’s book ‘Freedom’, it will be just flood relief and wonder thru your whole being!

      There is a huge amount of truth to be found in religious and mythological meaning but it’s just all coming from a pre-science standpoint. As you absorb all this more Linda, you will see it is explained that as there was no science in for instance, Christ’s day, no first-principle-based insights into the workings of our world, the human condition could not actually be explained and solved, as it now has been which is the great significance of Jeremy’s work. You will read in his book Freedom that this dignifying understanding actually fulfills religion as the whole purpose of them was to be the custodian of the ideal state while the search for the liberating understanding of humans’ ‘fallen’ condition was underway.

      Jeremy writes in freedom essay 39, which you definitely will love reading as well as the other essays mentioned here (I’ll put the links at the end): ‘In the previous Freedom Essay 38 the point was made that finding understanding of the human condition at last makes it possible to explain and demystify all mythology, including all the parables and stories in the Bible, as was demonstrated in that essay by explaining the Biblical story of Noah’s Ark, and will be further demonstrated in the next essay, F. Essay 40, which explains ‘Judgment Day’, ‘the Apocalypse’, ‘the battle of Armageddon’, the ‘Anti-Christ’, the ‘Messiah’ and the ‘second coming’. Of course, one of the most interesting and important demystifications of the contents of the Bible would be that of the prophets whose words created that most famous and revered of all books, and indeed, what is explained in FREEDOM does allow us to fully understand the prophets in the Bible, including the greatest of prophets, Abraham, Moses and Christ.’

      Being able to make sense of this whole area has been just so important to me too, and just so fulfilling! And I would recommend definitely reading these links that are mentioned above:

      Freedom essay 4 is also great, this is a helpful summary: ‘Of course, what is missing from Moses’s account is the critical redeeming explanation for WHY searching for knowledge made us angry, egocentric and alienated which, as I emphasised in my previous presentation, science has since made possible with its discovery of the difference in the way genes and nerves operate—namely that while genes can give species orientations, nerves need to understand cause and effect. All the elements involved in producing the human condition of moral instincts at odds with a conscious mind are present in Moses’s story of Adam and Eve.’

      After getting familiar with the basic explanation (which is videos 1-4), Jeremy explains our soul (which gives rise to our imagination) in this essay, an explanation of what consciousness is in this essay, and then what consciousness is in this one,

      Keep at it Linda, and would love to hear of your progress!

    • Linda Susan

      Hello Susy,
      Thank you so much for your wonderful reply. I actually forgot what forum I was on and went to a different one! So silly!
      I greatly appreciate the terrific response that you presented to help me on my journey. I felt the truth of what you said so deeply. Almost a new spiritual awakening to the marvel of it all. To imagine the possibility of this integration is profoundly meaningful. The science and the spiritual explanations seem to fit like a jigsaw. The beauty of it all. The tragedy of it all that it has destroyed so many ‘souls’ in the process of its unfolding. I am overawed by the journey of understanding ahead of me. You have guided me now in the right direction – like Virgil leading the way – The Divine Comedy can be viewed in a new and amazing scientific light. It seems that T.S. Eliot’s ‘Redeeming of the dream’ is now possible. The aesthetic longings, yearnings and search for a new ‘model’ ‘paradigm’ is available to us all. A truly magnificent offering of liberation. New interpretations are now explained. And the longed-for realizations are being born.
      I suppose, that for those, like myself, who are more inclined towards the realities of the suffering earth, the human animal and all sentient beings thereon, have found it difficult to absorb the science of the reason for this immense dilemma.
      Jeremy Griffiths embraces so many dimensions within his comprehensive world view that it is a totality of comprehension that I long to fully understand.
      What a fantastic offering he is bestowing upon this earth.
      And so many thanks to you for leading me towards this new, true and beautifully holistic enlightenment within the complimentary fields of science and art.

      • Susy

        Your life-long search has certainly left you incredibly well-read, and you express yourself so articulately Linda! It’s really beautiful to read. The best, best, best thing ever is that you won’t be disappointed ever with this understanding of the human condition. It really does fulfill the dream of all these amazing thinkers and writers throughout history, and your own, ‘redeeming of the dream’ absolutely! These words of yours are just sublime, “The aesthetic longings, yearnings and search for a new ‘model’ ‘paradigm’ is available to us all. A truly magnificent offering of liberation. New interpretations are now explained. And the longed-for realizations are being born.” This is exactly what the pages of Freedom reveal and I’m just more glad than I could ever express that you have found this information! And yes “new, true and beautifully holistic enlightenment within the complimentary fields of science and art.” I hope you know that you can read Freedom freely online from the website if you want to, or while you’re waiting for your hard copy. I think you are just going to devour it! Good wishes to you Linda, or is it Linda Susan?

    • Linda Susan

      Hello Susy,
      Many thanks for all your encouragement. Greatly appreciated.
      Yes, I know that you are right. I will definitely be delving ever more deeply into Jeremy Griffith’s work.
      I look forward to understanding the meaning of all this complexity and trying to spread the word of all of these wonderful insights.
      The future of humankind depends upon these hard-won truths and the beautiful integrity with which Jeremy Griffiths expresses it all.
      So, going forward to find the beauty of the White Bird of Truth will be a lifelong pursuit of joy.
      Thank you Susy.

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