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This topic contains 21 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by  GKroucamp 2 months, 1 week ago.

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  • adamjedgar
    Participant

    I am only just beginning to read, so i apologise if i am beginning from the wrong angle, however, as outlined in my introduction to the forum, i am coming at this from the angle of a Christian. Note i am a rough nut christian…foul language and frustration are part of my daily routine (my current business of truck driving and earthmoving has its influences).

    My wish is not to aim to convert anyone btw.

    My use of the bible is simply my current worldview and is my reference/my compass at this point in time.

    ————————————————————–

    This is a 4 question post…hope that is ok as a starting point.

    My reading so far of the theory of “Plato’s Cave” (from Wikipedia) has so far lead me to believe that Jeremy is influenced largely as a result of “Evil Demon Skepticism” with his current view being that the world is not created/controlled by God and temptation to do evil, a result of Satan.

    1. Is this an accurate assumption of where he is coming from?

    I note that Jeremey talks about Adam and Eve, and also about Cain (both parties banished)

    2. Why not accept the Biblical description that sin is responsible for the human condition and that without God, man is not only incapable of resisting the urge to sin but is in fact inclined to do evil continually? (we are not robots, just that we tend to be easily tempted into doing evil/wrong/sin)

    For example…

    “God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.” Genesis 6:5

    Moving on from early mankind, according to the Biblical story, to ancient predictions of modern mankind…

    In Matthew Jesus outlined what the end times will be like…

    “As the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that [Noah] entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.”Matthew 24.37-39

    The Bible foretold that our “evil” tendencies would get worse and not better as time went on. Now before we have the naysayers blast fourth into “the bible is a fable”, may i add, the dead sea scrolls have been relatively accurately dated at around 2000 years old. These writings show quite conclusively that current manuscripts of this book have not changed significantly in that time…so if the Bible is a fable and a lie, its been a well-kept one for a heck of a long time.

    Jeremy writes…”I should reinforce to the reader here that living in Plato’s cave of darkness from having to resign to a life lived in denial of the suicidally depressing issue of the human condition, and the truth that our species’ once lived in a cooperative and loving state, has rendered resigned adults unable to recognise how corrupted from that original all-loving state our world has become.”

    The biblical story outlines that this is exactly what God says will happen to mankind. i refer to the book of Daniel…

    “….There will be a time of distress such as never has occurred from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.Then the wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens,a and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.But you, Daniel, shut up these words and seal the book until the time of the end. Many will roam to and fro, and knowledge will increase.” daniel 1:1-3

    Jeremy also writes…
    “In a further example of the blindness of the resigned mind, the failure to acknowledge that our species did once live in a cooperative and loving state means there has been a subsequent failure to see how the recent enormous advances in communication technology have destroyed the trust we derive from our species’ original instinctive inclination to believe in the goodness of others; to believe that others will behave lovingly and cooperatively.”

    However, recent events on a remote island off the coast of India (where a missionary was killed for enterring the island) clearly indicate to me that technology has nothing to do with these. Those natives have lived untouched by modern technology for thousands of years and yet their agression to an unarmed man from the sea is hardly “living in harmony”

    3. So, if one was to simply accept the biblical view of the world, wouldn’t a book written more than 2,000 years ago have a rather complete explanation of all of this already?

    4. Are the writings of the human condition necessary because of a lack of belief in God? And since man by nature seems to seek epistemological answers, in not believing in a Creator God we therefore must form alternative theories?

    • This topic was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by  adamjedgar.
    • This topic was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by  adamjedgar.
    • This topic was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by  adamjedgar.
  • Susan
    Susan
    Keymaster

    Having emphasised the importance of having a basic understanding of this biological understanding of the human condition Adam (in this thread on the Forum https://www.humancondition.com/forums/topic/welcome-to-the-general-discussion-forum/#post-41184) what will be shown is that Jeremy does accept the biblical view that humans suffer from what has historically been described as ‘sin’ but can now be understood as our psychological upset state, which is explained in Video/Freedom Essay 3 (https://www.humancondition.com/freedom-essays/the-explanation-of-the-human-condition/), and God can be understood as ‘integrative meaning’, which is explained in Freedom Essay 23 (https://www.humancondition.com/freedom-essays/the-integrative-meaning-of-existence/), and so on. Jeremy’s work doesn’t contradict the Bible anywhere. It simply brings biological understanding to all those pre-scientific concepts, such as sin and God etc. So again we encourage you to start reading the presentations.


  • adamjedgar
    Participant

    Thank you Susan.
    This is going to be a unique journey for me. I cant wait to dive right in.

    Thank you for your reply.

    Kind regards
    Adam


  • Dave
    Participant

    Hi,

    I have had similar experiences with science and religion. One thing that helped me is to know is that science is based on facts that are repeatable and provable by others and religion is based feelings and things that can’t be repeated. For example, you can have a spiritual feeling that tells you something is true/real, but you can’t prove it and no one else can disprove it. In other words, feelings are not repeatable by others.

    The HC information is science, which means is it repeatable and based on facts, not feelings or intuition. Knowing about the HC may make you feel good, but the science behind it is not feeling based.

    Dave


  • adamjedgar
    Participant

    I am finding the read verg very laborious.
    In some ways i wonder if it wouldnt be better for me ro understand the end goal of the HC, then study specific parts of it in depth (working backwards i guess)

    I am not sure that the HC could be considered a science…i thought of it more as a theory that is being used to make sense of life. Is that science, or a philosophy?


  • adamjedgar
    Participant

    I am finding the read verg very laborious.
    In some ways i wonder if it wouldnt be better for me ro understand the end goal of the HC, then study specific parts of it in depth (working backwards i guess)

    I am not sure that the HC could be considered a science…i thought of it more as a theory that is being used to make sense of life. Is that science, or a philosophy?

    One question i would like to ask…
    Jeremy.talks about Adam and Eve becoming concious after they sinned in the garden of Eden.

    What does he mean by conciousness? How does he define it?
    Is it knowing good and evil, or having the power to reason, or simply the point where we are not acting purely on instinct?

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  adamjedgar.
    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  adamjedgar.
    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  adamjedgar.

  • Dave
    Participant

    Hi,

    The word Theory as used in science is considered an explanation based on many lines of evidence and lots of facts. Evolution, the Big Bang, Plate Tectonics, Germ Theory are a few examples of solid science theories or big picture explanations that are widely accepted by the science community because the theories are so well vaiidated. The HC could be put in this category as a science theory or explanation of human behavior. Much more science data will be collected to further validate HC theory in the future. Some day it is my hope HC theory will be as accepted as the other theories listed above. I also hope someday J Griffith will be widely known name like Darwin, Einstein Wegener etc.

    I think Jeremy uses Adam and Eve as a metaphor for all humans as they search for knowledge. When humans developed consciousness it conflicted with the instincts – hence leaving behind the Garden of Eden and going into the world to find understanding.

    Also, wanted to add that a science theory can be used to make accurate predictions. These predictions can then be tested. In my view HC theory does allow for accurate, precise prediction about human behavior. In my view the ability of the HC to predict and confirm predictions puts it solidly in the realm of science and a science theory.

    My 2 cents

    Dave

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  Dave.
    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  Dave.
  • Monica
    Monica
    Participant

    Hi Adam,

    The very nature of the human condition means that people can have a great deal of difficulty initially accessing or ‘hearing’ the explanations because the issue of the human condition has been the most terrifying of subjects to face and we have lived in almost total denial of it.

    We do recommend people start with the first 4 videos on our website (which are at the top of our homepage https://www.humancondition.com/), the first of which is fully dedicated to introducing this ‘deaf effect’ problem and that it is eroded with time. You also might find that the short booklet ‘Transform Your Life and Save The World’, which is a summary of ‘FREEDOM’, more helpful in providing an overview of the fundamental concepts and end goal.

    In the Video/ Freedom Essay series, Video/F. Essay 3 presents the actual biological explanation of the human condition which was produced when our genetic instincts and intellect (which arose from our nerves) clashed. The human condition is the realm of inquiry where science and religion, reason and faith, finally overlap and Jeremy’s work certainly quotes many philosophers including Plato (who also strongly warns of the deaf effect as quoted in Video/F. Essay 1), but this is necessarily, very much science based Adam. Through the advances made by mechanistic science, a ‘big picture’ (as Dave says) holistic, denial-free, human-condition-confronting-not-avoiding, first-principle biological explanation has been able to be synthesised by Jeremy, that at last answers this age-old and crux question about our fundamental goodness and worth as a species. And, now being able to understand why we have been so selfish and destructive (when the ideals are to be cooperative and loving) and why it has all been for an incredibly heroic and meaningful reason the human condition comes to an end, and all our upset can subside and heal. Reconciled and redeemed, we can finally legitimately transform ourselves and our world and enter a whole new free existence which is the ‘end goal’.

    In terms of explaining consciousness, yes it is the ability to reason. Jeremy says in ‘FREEDOM’ (par 61) ‘Much developed, nerves can sufficiently associate information to reason how experiences are related, learn to understand and become conscious of, or aware of, or intelligent about, the relationship between events that occur through time. Thus consciousness means being sufficiently aware of how experiences are related to attempt to manage change from a basis of understanding.’ When we became conscious some 2 million years ago, and the clash with our genetic loving instinctive self began, we would have started to encounter the human condition, the capacity for good and ‘evil’ but consciousness itself is not defined by that. For more information on this subject a brief summary can be found in FAQ 5.4 (https://www.humancondition.com/wtm-faq-what-is-consciousness/), more detail in Freedom Essay 24 (https://www.humancondition.com/freedom-essays/how-did-consciousness-emerge-in-humans/) which has references to the full explanation found in ‘FREEDOM’.

    I hope this is of some help Adam.


  • brenancasler
    Participant

    Adam

    I believe the discussion of “Religion vs. the Human Condition” is one of the most humbling of discussions, as both cannot be proved definitively as of yet. I definitely think it is important to point out that as far as we know, we are the only intelligent species in the observable universe currently. Therefore, and to put it simply, we are ‘figuring all this stuff out as we go’, and have been sense the dawn of man. I think Jeremy’s work is a testament to that statement.

    With this, we’ve had to assess our surroundings accordingly. Through this assessment, our ability to develop language, our inclination to find patterns and even develop them ourselves, and many other ‘human traits’, we had no choice but to make sense of what was going on around us. Religion offers possible answers to incomprehensible events. Take a draught for instance. Why would a draught happen? Who or what could want my children, my family, my friends, and my whole village to suffer gravely with hunger? The only plausible explanation during early antiquity was a higher being of a sort. When other unfortunate happenings would take place, a new God would be formed and prayed too, all in the name of ‘figuring all this stuff out as we go.’ There is a consistent direction in religion through time; polytheism gave birth to monotheism. (Yuval Noah Harari highlights this in his book “Sapiens” which I would HIGHLY recommend you read)….then “science” happened.

    In regards to “Religion vs. Human Condition”, I believe that religion as a whole is a smaller piece of the whole of the human condition.

    With that said, I’ve been studying the human condition for some time now, I’m new to the page, and I’m super excited to have some good discussion!

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by  brenancasler.

  • adamjedgar
    Participant

    so can i ask, is Jeremies theory humanism based?

    I ask this because it appears that he is suggesting that man can fix both societies problems that have come about because of what man is, and also our world around us.

    In terms of the world, if it/and us did evolve, and if we are in a cycle (as global warming critics say),would not the evoutionary process just continue to evolve randomly as it has always done?

    In terms of the development of conciousness, if one was to consider the alternative to evolution…the biblical model, then Adam was given dominion over all the earth…and he named each and every one of the animals. He also noticed almost immediately after his creation (according to the biblical model) that he was alone and did not have a mate. This would appear to be consciousness would it not?

    I guess i am just trying to determine exactly how Jeremies ideas fit into the questions of Where did we come from? why are we here? and where are we going?

    Probably the most important question for me, although i suppose they are all equally important for understanding, is what of the future…is there life after death? I want there to be more than just here and now. I fear that unless there is a future beyond death, the world will continue to exist only in this lifetime…making the most of it and “to hell with everything/everyone else”!

    I like the noble intent of World Transformation, however, i fear that it cannot make headway against a tide of self serving men intent on viewing life as 3 score and 10 years! What does Jeremy suggest is a way forward in this regard? how do we overcome mans seemingly inherent nature of self serving?

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by  adamjedgar.

    • Dave
      Participant

      Hello,

      I want to respond to: “Religion vs. the Human Condition” is one of the most humbling of discussions, as both cannot be proved definitively as of yet.” I just wanted to note that science can prove some things definitively or to the point where the evidence is so overwhelming that there is no other explanation and very little uncertainty. One of the good things about science is recognizing uncertainties or areas where more data/explanation may be needed, but it is a constant march towards understanding. A classic example is gravity. Newton’s Laws prevailed for hundreds of years and are still rock soild in 99.9999 percent of cases on Earth, but Einstein updated Newton when he looked at things on huge scales and light speeds. Newton’s laws are definitive in most cases, but in a few other cases (precession of Mercury etc.) there was uncertainty until Einstein gave us relativity. Newton described gravity (laws), but Relativity gives an explanation/theory of what causes gravity – a huge update (J Griffith gave us a huge update with regard to human behavior!). Religion is about dogma and salvation and does not look at things in terms of uncertainty. There is no room in religion to modify the dogma (e.g., do away with Jesus etc.), if something new comes along. In all cases I can think of (Noah’s Ark, Adam and Eve, Age of the Earth, the Exodus etc.) science has definitively shown these ideas to be incorrect. The idea of an afterlife can’t be tested, so there is no way for science to approach this topic. In my view, religion is dogmatic/biased (not open minded or changing) and about spirituality and feelings and science is unbiased, changeable and based on facts, allowing for decision making and understandings. This being said, I do agree with the HC discussions that today’s science is mechanistic-giving us a very bleak view of human life and our future, but that is another discussion! This will be a big, very humbling change for science in the future.

      Last note is that Einstein gave us Relativity that lead to GPS and other technologies and understandings and other great scientists have given us huge advances in medicine etc., but J Griffith has given us a theory that can lead to harmony, love, world peace and happiness for humans. The greatest discovery ever made. It makes me feel good to type this!!!

      • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by  Dave.
      • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by  Dave.
      • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by  Dave.
      • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by  Dave.

  • brenancasler
    Participant

    Hi Adam,

    I want to to throw my hat in the ring and will attempt to offer so explanation to your questions. I will respond in the order in which you’ve made a new paragraph.

    It does appear to me that Jeremy, although a biologist, has developed an impressive form of existential-humanism psychoanalysis.

    Evolution happens slowly. There is a term called tachytelic evolution or quantum evolution that refers to regular evolution that just simply happens faster than normal (the human brain is the perfect example). Evolution is always happening. Recessive genes i.e., red hair, may be eliminated in the next couple hundred years.

    In terms of Adam, yes, I would consider this consciousness for the biblical standpoint, as he is consciously aware of and is taking in all of his surroundings through his five senses and is making mental frame work of the world and will most certainly act accordingly.

    For the rest of the three paragraphs, I would say that the whole of the WTM is to look at these questions and to analyze them. The afterlife is a very hot topic in terms of want happens because no one knows for sure yet. I think religion as a whole is APART OF the human condition, as a way to make sense of a world full of nonsense, but that is just my opinion!

    If you’re looking for some good reading on your “where do we come from, why are we here, where are we going?” questions, I would suggest this six part series:
    inspirelife-media.com/media/categories/the-human-series


    • Tommy
      Participant

      Yes this is a very exciting arena brenan, and yes very humbling for me too. There is a lot to get your head around with this biological understanding of the human condition, it goes very deep and the more you look into it, the more you see the significance of what Jeremy has explained, and how liberating it is. You will see we are no longer walking around ‘figuring all this stuff out as we go’ but that our accumulation of knowledge means we’re now finally able to bring scientific understanding to our lives. Jeremy’s work is on the shoulders of all those who have gone before him such that the whole human situation has now been made transparently clear and from any angle you look at, be it religious or philosohical or political (Jeremy’s book Freedom and the essays cover all these topics and more including the three questions above). Solving the human condition required finding the clarifying difference between the way the intellect (which gave rise to our consciousness) and instincts (our conscience) work, and that is what Jeremy has found. Video 4 is a personal favourite, it documents other thinkers who have recognised instinct and intellect elements involved in creating the human condition.


  • adamjedgar
    Participant

    hi brenan,
    i will take a look at the link you provided as i move through watching Jeremies videos. I am currently viewing the Key Concept video a second time.
    One thing i suspect will be a problem for me is that as i reflect upon my lifes experiences, I am reminded of a strong tendencies for those imparting their knowledge upon me to make rather improper assumptions of the two dominating philosphies about the origins of life.

    I apologise that my perspective is a religious one…that is the life i know

    So from a religious perspective, the solution to the human condition is actually incredibly simple…God makes man, Lucifer an angle of light gets gready and attempts to ‘overthrow God’, Lucifer is banished from heaven, seeking revenge Lucifer (now Satan) deceives Eve and she eats the forbidden fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (i view this as a metaphor for choosing disobedience), Adam decides he will “go down with the ship” (an act of love”?), sin comes into the world…and “a plan of salvation is put into action” whereby a messiah will one day provide a way out of this mess.

    I guess in short, the religious view of the human condition is summed up in a single phrase…the wages of sin is death. we are all of those things Jeremy outlines in Video 2 The WTM, the religious solution to it “for god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believes on him shall not perish but have everlasting life”.

    So I suppose that what i see in the world around me are once again 2 conflicting scenarios

    The cause and solution to the Human Condition with God,
    I am now investigating the cause and solution to the human condition without God.

    People often say that religous philosophy cannot be proven, however, there are many things contained within the biblical philosophy (a book that is proven to be more than 2000 years old) that when followed produce a rather harmonious existence (take the ten commandments as point and example)

    My aim is to be as open minded as i possibly can about this, however, as with all man and our conscious minds, we find it difficult to see through the fog!


  • brenancasler
    Participant

    Hi Adam,

    I think the bible and any religious text holds many great values. It’s funny you say that “religion is the only life you” know because my life is the exact same way, just from the other perspective; I never went to to church growing up and wasn’t baptized. So my knowledge on the ins and outs of the Bible are rather sparse, so don’t feel like you have to apologize! I think you bring up a lot of good points. I also am very open minded.

    I don’t like when atheists flat out deny the existence. I think it’s an arrogant claim. The Bible is an an important (and probably the most important or significant text of our species). I also appreciate very much that being a person of religious faith can be open minded, as we all know a couple people in life who will try to push religion on others. There is an interesting philosophy called Possibilianism that is a form of middle ground between agnosticism and religion. I think I definitely fall into that categories as far as religion goes!


  • adamjedgar
    Participant

    I suppose that the one common denominator across all life/world views (politics included) is that quite often quotes are taken slightly or grossley out of context, and assumptions from those quotes. I have noticed a couple made by Jeremy very early on in his videos that i completely dissagree with. Having said that, i also see religious people, politicians, journalists, marketing people etc regularly do exactly the same thing.

    It is an interesting part of human nature, that i think Jeremy himself is on a journey to discover and for this reason i take this journey. Yes i am a follower of the Bible model, albeit I am a pretty lousy example of that philosophy, however, I am sure that the real truth for all humankind actually exists when all parts (religion, evolution, etc) come together as one. Sure i realise it requires a lot of weeding out of conflicting parts of each theory, however, one things is for certain in my mind…this world exists right now, and continues to function because of the principles of science we have learnt from studying the world around us, and because of the moral code given to us in books such as the bible. I think Jeremies journey here is really knocking us on the head and saying its about time we accepted who we are, and now lets try to do something to make it better. What is unfortunate about the so called ‘christian model’ that came out of medieval age for example, is that it quite often tended to portray the idea that we are waisting our time (mans selfish cultural influences at work). I walk a fine line because i also realise that from a Christian perspective we are told quite matter of factly, without God, man does tend to find it very easy to do evil. I struggle with this concept, because “in the beginning God… created man in his own image”!


  • brenancasler
    Participant

    That is a very interesting concept isn’t it? I think where the strength of this Movement lies is in the ability to question. I think that’s one of the beauties of science; the fact that there is a sort of bliss in ‘not knowing’ and the fact that you cant find answers. For me personally, that was an issue I see with religion because I’m extremely curious and I love that there are things that I simply do not know. Feel free to correct me please, but I feel like with organized religion, that stress that the answers have been found.

    Also Adam, what are you thoughts on the future of organized religion?


  • nomad
    Participant

    High praise to you Adam with taking your time with this biological understanding, it is obviously highly challenging of your previous and current world-view, and to remain open is admirable. I have read in-depth all of Jeremy’s work, and I know he considers the Bible to be a repository of extremely rare denial-free truth, containing all the truth about human life albeit from a pre-science view, and Christ as one of the greatest prophets that humanity has known. The big difference is that without science religions could only manage our upset (eg. the ten commandments) and give us comfort, but the human condition could not actually be solved. As Tommy points out above, understanding of the source of our upset angry, egocentric and alienated (sinful) behaviour required knowledge of genes and nerves, namely why our conscious mind had to search for knowledge and why our instincts could not help but criticise that search – which is because nerves are insightful, whereas genes are not. With that key piece of knowledge found by Jeremy, the whole human condition ends, we no longer have to be defiant – our angry egocentric and alienated defiance is redundant. So that is why this understanding ‘solves’ the human condition. In terms of the fear of not having an ‘afterlife’, Jeremy writes beautifully about that in his book ‘A Species In Denial’ https://www.humancondition.com/asid-afterlife-explained/?scroll_to=afterlife&scroll_num=1. This information really does represent a huge demystification of our world, and it speaks for itself in terms of whether the logic stacks up, but the preference for more literal interpretations is respected.


  • Ari
    Participant

    What a fascinating thread and posts. Not sure that I can add anything to the discussion but here’s my 2 bobs worth.
    I was brought up in a religious household. Believed in God, occasionally went to Church, attended Catholic school (although we’re Greek Orthodox) and generally tried to live a good life for (i) fear of punishment and (ii) the reward of eternal life.

    I deliberately added these 2 motivational concepts because they are underpin the desire to lead a good life in a religious concept. I.e. in the days where these religions were formed, and there was no biological or scientific explanation of our meaning (or condition), it was necessary to include both a punishment for ‘sin’ and a reward for ‘good behaviour’. How else could you get people to behave cooperatively.

    This is not a criticism of religions but merely a statement of fact and reason.

    The way I see it now as I am getting more comfortable with reading the literature and watching the videos, Jesus and other great religious people did in fact save the world. They’re innocence and sacrifice gave hope to the people of the world of meaning to life and a better place, so that as a species, we would fight through the terrible times humanity endured in those times.

    When first presented with the human condition by my brother about 15 years ago, my greatest obstacle was accepting the notion that there may not be God and that my life and my beliefs may be a lie. Thank God I didn’t let that stop me because just reading that now is hilarious.

    Now I have true meaning to my life. Everything is explained. Everything makes sense. There is now more reason than ever to be good, compassionate, loving, caring, devoted as a husband, Father, brother, friend, neighbour, fellow human. Every other human is truly my brother and sister.

    What greater reward could there be than to live life as nature intended in your natural state.

    So Adam my friend keep going and don’t stop. You’re courage and this journey will take you to a place far beyond anything you could possibly have imagined.


  • lightseeker
    Participant

    I am new to the forum discussions & after hours of reading & viewing videos, I am intrigued by the variety of comments. The human condition is a spiritual condition as we were created in the image of God; having been given a God-given moral conscience to discern right from wrong. The first perfectly created human Adam is proof that sin (willful disobedience) leads to alienation & separation from God. Adam was expelled from the Garden of Eden & was forever cut-off from God & the second tree in the garden; the tree of life. That tragic consequence of sin is; my friends; the true definition of our human condition!! Because of our alienation & separation from our Creator, we live in a thought-system based on fear; (i.e. intellect) instead of a thought system based on love (i.e. instinct). We have failed to use our minds as God intended – instead of extending love, we project fear which has sadly resulted in the human crisis. In misusing the gift of free will as Adam chose, our mind has turned against itself; herein, lies all the suffering of mankind. The main point I wish to make is the human crisis is a SPIRITUAL dysfunction; NOT a biological, physical one!! Albert Einstein once said ” The same level of thinking that has created the problem, cannot solve the problem”. Fear-based thinking is a man-made problem therefore man is unable to solve the problem (HC). We are spiritual beings created by God; we have misused our God-given faculty of good & evil (right & wrong); realising this & to heal the human crisis (HC) is to allow God into our lives to guide our thinking & behaviour (based on love) as God intended in the beginning. See Jeremiah 10:23 ” I well know, O Jehovah, that man’s way does not belong to him. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step”. If you are searching for the truth, God’s Word will show you the way. Thank you for reading my comment. Sending God’s love.


  • Sam
    Participant

    Great thred to read. Understanding the human condition in myself, I appreciate why I had to adopt religion after resignation. I became so upset at not encountering a cooperative loving world, and as part of that fought back, became full of upset behaviour after feeling like my inner world was ignored by my father and oppressed by people in the outer world.
    Through that fighting back, I also became a mean and angry person, and so the focus turned back on me and what I was, which I thought because I wasn’t always ideal that I’m probably bad. I couldnt accept that on its own so I became competitive and embroiled in the whole mess to prove I was good, and in the process I cashed in my condemning souls world…a price I had to pay, makes me reflect on the saying “We had to march through hell for a heavenly cause”.

    I had to put my hope faith and trust in God, and that I was still somehow good, despite the guilt and shame I felt for having turned into an angry competitive upset person instead of remaining a selfless loving person. Even before I was overly upset as a child, my mother groomed me to adopt religion, in anticipation of me needing it to cope with a future upset, conflicted, unloving world in me and outside me. my mother would always take me with her to church every Sunday, and the effect of that was that I built symbolic representations of god and Jesus in my own mind, who were then in charge of managing me and my world, where i then interpreted my experience in the outer world as if it was God’s test that I was to endure living in this conflicted state and world, and that he’ll look after me in the long run and give me the glory i deserved…a state of mind that led me to continue on living a deaf-effected psychotic narcissistic delusion out on the world and its people.

    When I read Jeremy Griffith’s biological work truthfully explaining the human condition, I was able to appreciate the macro scale of the problem, that it wasnt just me in this entagled mess, but everyone around me and all previous generations.
    The accountability of the science dismantled and shattered all the denials and false philosophies I adopted, including all the illusionary perceptions of God and Jesus i created that had a deep hold on my mind. It was finally safe to replace them with scientific compassionate explanation that addressed the egocentric, upset behaviour and unravelled the destructive psychosis that had gripped me, and which I saw was also gripping the world.

    The human condition now being resolved completely, turned me inwards and allowed me to unravel all those projections in my own head. The previous life without these understandings was just such a mind splitting painful dissociation from reality, and to be finally able to heal that split and transform with honest understanding is just remarkable, bone-drainingly relieving and just simply amazing.

    As a human, to know I have been on this collective journey to find understanding of the human condition with the rest of you, and to be able to clearly understand the truth of that by appreciating the role of my own denial of the subject during the process of accumulating knowledge, makes me just want to send all the joy and love out to you and every single person who has fought to achieve understanding of the human condition. I can’t thank biologist Jeremy Griffith enough for putting all the pieces together and liberating my mind to think freely again with clear biological and spiritual understanding.

    Lots of love to everyone out there.

    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  Sam. Reason: Spelling and grammar

  • GKroucamp
    Participant

    Hi to the group.
    My opinion if I may.

    Many belief Adam and Eve to be the first people created, yet there children went out to find wife’s and so the family grew with other families.

    The same with Noah and his family after the flood.

    Let’s step back: God created man in His image. Man and woman he created them. After the creation of man He had spirit left. God is spirit, man is created with and by spirit, of which God had some left.

    When in Ephesians and Gallasians and so on you find the list of acts man must do (loving) and others we must withhold ourselves from (loveless). This list conclude a personality to live by that show a loving soul, the spirit of God that He want us to follow to live in harmony.

    From this point Religion directs us to be good and loving, infact to nurture our children and care for one another.

    Now FREEDOM, Jeremy Griffith and WTM is in the process to assist humanity towards and on the same path. What Jeremy’s work accomplished is to open the doorway for science and religion to meet and humanity to become one whole loving organism, functioning is one body similar to ant and bee colonies.

    Also from the Bible. It states that Christians is the body of Christ, though different members in communion.

    Hope this assist a bit.