Home Forums General Discussion Religion vs Human Condition

This topic contains 2 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  adamjedgar 2 weeks, 1 day ago.

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  • adamjedgar

    I am only just beginning to read, so i apologise if i am beginning from the wrong angle, however, as outlined in my introduction to the forum, i am coming at this from the angle of a Christian. Note i am a rough nut christian…foul language and frustration are part of my daily routine (my current business of truck driving and earthmoving has its influences).

    My wish is not to aim to convert anyone btw.

    My use of the bible is simply my current worldview and is my reference/my compass at this point in time.


    This is a 4 question post…hope that is ok as a starting point.

    My reading so far of the theory of “Plato’s Cave” (from Wikipedia) has so far lead me to believe that Jeremy is influenced largely as a result of “Evil Demon Skepticism” with his current view being that the world is not created/controlled by God and temptation to do evil, a result of Satan.

    1. Is this an accurate assumption of where he is coming from?

    I note that Jeremey talks about Adam and Eve, and also about Cain (both parties banished)

    2. Why not accept the Biblical description that sin is responsible for the human condition and that without God, man is not only incapable of resisting the urge to sin but is in fact inclined to do evil continually? (we are not robots, just that we tend to be easily tempted into doing evil/wrong/sin)

    For example…

    “God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.” Genesis 6:5

    Moving on from early mankind, according to the Biblical story, to ancient predictions of modern mankind…

    In Matthew Jesus outlined what the end times will be like…

    “As the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that [Noah] entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.”Matthew 24.37-39

    The Bible foretold that our “evil” tendencies would get worse and not better as time went on. Now before we have the naysayers blast fourth into “the bible is a fable”, may i add, the dead sea scrolls have been relatively accurately dated at around 2000 years old. These writings show quite conclusively that current manuscripts of this book have not changed significantly in that time…so if the Bible is a fable and a lie, its been a well-kept one for a heck of a long time.

    Jeremy writes…”I should reinforce to the reader here that living in Plato’s cave of darkness from having to resign to a life lived in denial of the suicidally depressing issue of the human condition, and the truth that our species’ once lived in a cooperative and loving state, has rendered resigned adults unable to recognise how corrupted from that original all-loving state our world has become.”

    The biblical story outlines that this is exactly what God says will happen to mankind. i refer to the book of Daniel…

    “….There will be a time of distress such as never has occurred from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.Then the wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens,a and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.But you, Daniel, shut up these words and seal the book until the time of the end. Many will roam to and fro, and knowledge will increase.” daniel 1:1-3

    Jeremy also writes…
    “In a further example of the blindness of the resigned mind, the failure to acknowledge that our species did once live in a cooperative and loving state means there has been a subsequent failure to see how the recent enormous advances in communication technology have destroyed the trust we derive from our species’ original instinctive inclination to believe in the goodness of others; to believe that others will behave lovingly and cooperatively.”

    However, recent events on a remote island off the coast of India (where a missionary was killed for enterring the island) clearly indicate to me that technology has nothing to do with these. Those natives have lived untouched by modern technology for thousands of years and yet their agression to an unarmed man from the sea is hardly “living in harmony”

    3. So, if one was to simply accept the biblical view of the world, wouldn’t a book written more than 2,000 years ago have a rather complete explanation of all of this already?

    4. Are the writings of the human condition necessary because of a lack of belief in God? And since man by nature seems to seek epistemological answers, in not believing in a Creator God we therefore must form alternative theories?

    • This topic was modified 2 weeks, 2 days ago by  adamjedgar.
    • This topic was modified 2 weeks, 2 days ago by  adamjedgar.
    • This topic was modified 2 weeks, 2 days ago by  adamjedgar.
  • Susan

    Having emphasised the importance of having a basic understanding of this biological understanding of the human condition Adam (in this thread on the Forum what will be shown is that Jeremy does accept the biblical view that humans suffer from what has historically been described as ‘sin’ but can now be understood as our psychological upset state, which is explained in Video/Freedom Essay 3 (, and God can be understood as ‘integrative meaning’, which is explained in Freedom Essay 23 (, and so on. Jeremy’s work doesn’t contradict the Bible anywhere. It simply brings biological understanding to all those pre-scientific concepts, such as sin and God etc. So again we encourage you to start reading the presentations.

  • adamjedgar

    Thank you Susan.
    This is going to be a unique journey for me. I cant wait to dive right in.

    Thank you for your reply.

    Kind regards