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    • Darko
      Participant

      Hi!

      I am new to this forum and after reading thru most of the stuff on the website and the summary book I have now started reading “Freedom”. But I have many question which are not answered there.

      As far as I understand the whole “process” is about:

      – getting the information
      – accepting it as true
      – applying it to day to day live

      Please correct me if I am wrong.

      My first obstacle is: accepting it as true.

      Throughout my life I came among many theories basically “explaining life”. Religion, Science, Spirituality, etc… so this is (for me) just one more. It’s not that easy to just believe it because some authority said it. I would rather experience it by myself in my day to day life. But currently I can’t “connect the dots”. For example, consider this situation:

      I come home from work, really exhausted. My kids are running thru the house und are really loud. They are fighting about something minor – as kids are. After 10 minutes and really loud noises and fighting I get upset and scream at them. “Shut up! It’s enough! Stop fighting! I am tired and just want to rest!”.

      Afterwards I feel bad about it. (of course)

      So, could you explain me how to apply the knowledge about the conflict between mind vs instinct in this situation? I honestly can’t. The knowledge that some 2 million years ago this conflict started does not help me currently.

      Thanks in advance.

      Kind regards,
      Darko


    • Ari
      Participant

      Hi Darko.

      Well done for being so honest in your questions which I can totally relate to as a 48 year old Father of 4!

      Darko, the first thing I would say to you, is don’t be in a rush! I can detect some excitement in your post but also some reservation.

      That’s perfect. That’s exactly how you should feel but please finish reading Freedom. Read it carefully and slowly. It sounds to me like you will get to the end and want to read it again.

      You can’t connect the dots until at least some of the information makes sense.

      Darko my story is that I was first exposed to this information by my brother more than 10 years ago, when he asked me to read Jeremy’s book ‘A Species in Denial’. I read the whole book, all 500 and something pages of book and thought it was a terrible book.

      I told my brother this and proceeded to criticise the book and Jeremy’s method and technique of writing. I remember saying to my brother ‘After reading the whole book I still don’t even know what the human condition is!

      After about a year, I thought I’ll read the book again. I’ll give it another chance with a clear head. In reality Darko, what I did is let go of all of my pre-existing conditioning and learnings. I had to let go. For example we were brought up in a Greek Orthodox household so my first attempt at absorbing any information that put into question religious beliefs – was destined to fail.

      So the 2nd time round, I opened up my mind to ‘learning’. I opened up my mind to information. To possibilities.

      That’s all.

      Well OMG!!! I got to page 27 and there was a whole page easily and clearly describing what the HC is. I couldn’t believe it. I was blown away. How could this be the same book? I read the rest of the book and it was easy to read and made sense.

      I now know this to be due to a number of reasons:

      Firstly, Darko we don’t know this but our sub conscience worked out long ago, that we had to block out any ideas or discussion about our condition. I.e. Are we good or bad, because we had no way to explain it. If we can’t explain it then we must not think about it.

      Jeremy explains that this is the basis of Plato’s writing regarding our reluctance to leave the cave. We had to stay in the cave, i.e. in denial of our ‘upset state’ until such time as we could explain it.

      The only problem for you now is that you just need more time to read, understand, digest, question and accept the ‘truth’ as Jeremy describes it so your sub conscience is scared to step out of the cave.

      It took me 5 more years to step out of the cave after re-reading ‘A species in denial’ so I know as well as anyone how fearful this is. You’re probably reading this and saying ‘but I don’t feel scared – I just want answers’ – well that’s what I was thinking anyway.

      Be brave my friend and fear nothing. You have the opportunity to learn more truths in a single book than you would if you lived 10 successive lifetimes.

      The other problem with the information, when you are first expose to it is the concept of ‘the deaf effect’. Boy was I deaf the first time I read the book. It was like there was a brick wall made of 10 skins of brickwork which had to be broken down skin by skin. I was very lucky because I had a patient and loving brother who persisted.

      It is the unconditional selfless love that brought me out of the cave Darko. Nothing else.

      The reason you feel bad is because you don’t have understanding. When you have understanding you will feel excitement and joy beyond words. You will forever be a better Father, husband, friend, brother, neighbour and so on.

      You are already a human hero. A legend and survivor.

      I wish you well on this journey my friend. I am excited for you and here if you need me.


    • Ari
      Participant

      PS. One more thing Darko.

      In relation to your question:
      ‘So could you explain to me how to apply the knowledge about the conflict between mind vs instinct in this situation? I honestly can’t. The knowledge that some 2 million years ago this conflict started does not help me currently?

      The conflict between the instinct and the intellect was an inevitable one when we developed a conscious mind and went on our search for knowledge. That conflict is the underlying cause of our (humanities) condition, i.e. our ability to be immensely good but also to be immensely bad). The Adam Stork story is brilliant in shining light on this dilemma of our species.

      When you read more of freedom you will understand that this conflict was beyond our control. It is not our fault that this happened and in fact it was necessary to carry out this journey in darkness, to find understanding. This journey was painful but heroic and fully explains our imperfect behaviour.

      The critical point Darko is that the information liberates us from the guilt and ‘feeling bad’ as you put it because we are not bad, we are good! We are explained and not condemned. We, you included, are the true heroes of life on earth.


    • Darko
      Participant

      Thank you for the long explanation!

      However, it is still not clear to me:

      If the conflict is based on criticism of the instinctive self, how would an intellectual understanding solve this? The instinctive self would not stop the criticism even though the conscious mind would „counteract“ with intellectual understanding.

      All the „crazy self justification“ (which in fact is the human condition) didn’t help to silence the instincts. Wrong is wrong.

      Doing harm to others will left me feeling bad about it – and that’s good! Understanding 1000 times that in fact it’s necessary would not convince the instinctive self that it’s good and necessary. Would it… ?


    • RJ
      Participant

      Hi Darko,

      Bringing understanding to the different ways genes/instincts and nerves/intellect fundamentally work, and how that affects our behaviour, as Jeremy has done, does source and thus reconcile the conflict between the two.

      What Jeremy is explaining is that our conscious brain, which emerged 2 million years ago is nerve-based and needs understanding to operate, so its natural experimentation was going to lead to an unavoidable conflict with our already established gene-based cooperative & loving instinctive orientations. The result of this conflict between our instinct and intellect was an undeserved sense of guilt and insecurity that caused us to become psychologically defensive, angry, alienated and egocentric, the upset state we refer to as the human condition.

      Up until this point, the intellect hasn’t had any understanding of why it had to go in search for knowledge, and why it became upset, so we haven’t had anything to ‘counteract’ the criticism coming from our all-loving instincts, except to defy them and defensively try to prove that we were good and not bad, all the ‘self justification’. You’re right that this did not silence the instincts AT ALL, in fact it only made the situation much, much WORSE! This has been the horror and burden of living in the human condition. What we needed was the understanding that would take us 2 million years to find.

      This is a great quote from freedom essay 10, ‘In fact, most of human behaviour now is driven by, and most of our personalities are a direct result of, our inability to understand and know whether we are evil monsters or not. That IS the absolute bottom-line truth about our lives—that virtually all our behaviour has been based upon an immense uncertainty and insecurity about our fundamental goodness, worth and meaningfulness.’

      So the huge game changer now is that we can finally have a dialogue between these two very different learning systems, we can finally explain to our instincts that we weren’t bad for searching for knowledge and becoming upset. Our instincts were not right to condemn us and we can finally explain why, our fundamental goodness has finally been established. In fact Jeremy explains that our intellect is the hero of the whole story on Earth! All the upset on Earth, all the anger, egocentricity, selfishness etc has been for a very good reason, this defends and explains our ‘dark side’. There is nothing that condemns us now, it is all explainable and all reconcilable. Our instincts and intellect are reconciled, and not only that but all the poles of life eg. women & men.

      Having our upset explained doesn’t condone it either, and with understanding our whole need to prove ourselves can subside and heal. It’s this self-understanding that we need to fix up all the problems on the planet.

      This is all very well set out in the introductory video series, particularly 1-4 & I love #10 as well so recommended viewing there.


    • Ari
      Participant

      The criticism you’re referring to Darko was ‘pre-understanding’ because post understanding, the conflict disappears.

      It was an internal conflict we had to have but it is no longer necessary.

      Explanation = understanding = meaning = resolution = forgiveness = light = selflessness = love (unconditional) = ‘no need for validation’ = TRUTH!

      RJ explained it brilliantly above that when one truly understands the cause of the human condition it leads to reconciliation between the instinct and the intellect and allows the process of self-healing (i.e. the subsiding of our ‘upset’).

      This was the point I was trying to make in my first post above. That this process can take some time – as it did for me many years!

      I just wanted you to know that I had much greater reservations and resistance to the information but I can honestly say to you that I AM FREE OF THE BURDEN OF GUILT, I AM FREE OF THE CONFLICT, I AM FREE OF FEELING BAD, I AM FREE. For the first time in my life I am free.

      You’ve grasped some very important concepts which is amazing and brilliant Darko.

      Patience and open minded perseverence is the key my friend. Good luck and hope to talk again.


    • Darko
      Participant

      Ok, thank you! I will need to dive deeper into that.

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