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  • in reply to: Refuting Left Wing politics


    People on the right or the left are both incapable of accepting the Human Condition because they are both coming from a false mental construct. No being is right or left. The being (biological if not more which we are not at a place where we can study that while stuck in the human condition anyways) is not, and cannot be right or left. If you do not understand that, and I don’t know if the WTM does a good job of bringing understanding to this, but if so (someone from the WTM can weigh in here) keep reading Freedom
    You can understand this from a non dogmatic study of religion apparently. Not institutionalized bible study, but exploring the metaphorical explanations on the metaphysical. You can get to this through a study of Buddhism/Hinduism from an Eastern perspective. You can get here from a thorough study of Stoicism with an Eastern perspective, not Western institutionalized perversion of the practices and belief system. I used to study secularist looks into Buddhism, and a study of Stoicism.

    in reply to: Refuting Left Wing politics


    Thanks for replying.

    I would say, my first impression, that makes me wary is that I have been approached by a few other ‘truth seeking’ organizations and they keep turning out to be dogmatic in the least 100% believing in a higher power. That is so foreign to me, it feels like going backward because the word ‘higher’ has many connotations that I am not wouldn’t necessarily associate with an unknown . I don’t reject notion of a higher power, but what I would say is that I believe more in an outside force. That could be space debris from a clasping star or it could be an intelligent other dimensional being but I feel it is unknown and not understood to me at this time. So, I won’t involve myself with those groups that I believe have a fundamental flaw. I am aware I may have a different fundamental flaw. Which is another thing I don’t understand at this time. I do not wish to close myself of to someones specific philosophy or vision because I think trying to temporarily see things through their lens is necessary to deepen and expand my and/or others insight and understanding.

    As far as right-left. I understand people’s rejections of Dogmatism. It is something that has kind of kept me from being involved, kind of a feeling of rejection that dogmatic behavior does not accept. I was initially attracted to Abraham Lincoln (I was not indoctrinated in American Education System as I am French Canadian) some Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson which I believe at the time would have been considered republican. I have always seen Plato as a model for many ideals. Except that from what I was taught he would not have been a proponent of democracy. However I am a proponent of democracy but I think it requires a commitment to seeking further knowledge and awareness for those who participate in the democratic system. However, I would long for a kind of ‘post democratic’ time, where democracy as many would see it would become obsolete.

    The thing about right-wing when people used that term so often, I suppose it has become associated with conservatism, tradition and especially in North America Christianity and religious fundamentalism which in itself is very dogmatic. I don’t reject tradition, but I have always believed it is something to be questioned and analyzed. In my personal experiences it has been people who identify with right wing idealism that reject questioning and analysis of their dogma and traditions. It has always been people in my life who had traditional left-wing leanings that have been exploration and embraced science, where those that have been so attached to tradition have loudly rejected science and scientific method which I find grossly misunderstood by most who would reject it.

    Traditional and absolute belief in lifestyle, gender roles, morals do not seem absolute to me and that they follow adaptations to environmental changes which are far from being static therefore I’d expect them to change, and expect they would have over long periods of time, somewhat always changed. Genes that at this time are typically concentrated in males can easily conceivably naturally become spread among males and females. Yet I do not believe in an enforced change or a enforced sticking of position. As if everything has been pre-determined and absolute which is a conclusion I have never been comfortable with. I do try to understand the belief, and see a possible strength in it, but I also see weakness, which is why I feel analysis and understanding is important rather than attachment to dogma.

    I have since read more and find things still very much in-line with much of my outlook, including your response. So far I am on Chapter 2. In the past I have found acceptance even in disagreement with people who identify as left wing and what I meant to convey more is that I wish more people would get past pitting one side against the other or believing one side or the other has moral high ground. Not allowing myself to be labeled right wing (realistically I cannot control that) to me means rather only accepting to be recognized as neither right nor left.

    Thanks again for an informative response, I am feeling like insight in this book will help me to re-concilliate some mental conflicts I am aware I have.


    in reply to: Refuting Left Wing politics


    I guess I would be considered left wing, although I am more anti-authoritarian and against existing power structures. Left or right wing, I don’t have much use for them, nor would I consider them right or left wing. Because of negative association both left and right labels have garnished, I prefer to not place myself on spectrum. My main philosophical influences have tended to be considered left wing though and I guess if someone considers me left wing they realize it is due to my values, beliefs and ideals, I am not ‘left-wing’ by default. Although, I would never allow myself to be labeled right wing. I find compassion and empathy, cooperation and acceptance, equality (in the way that we are human first before any concept of worth or value can come into play) primarily left-wing values. Although, I have had people say to me, they see that on the right and hypocrisy on the left where I see that on the right. Although I think it is more of a human thing, and that whether someone is right or left wing comes down more to our experiences.

    I welcome open minded, intelligent and civil discussion with anyone who has different political beliefs as myself.

    I am curious, is WTM a right wing movement? Neither right nor left wing? involved in religion/mysticism? I have just start reading Freedom: The End of the Human Condition. I just have come across some statements that seem to condemn someone who may be associated with the left. I think that would be disappointing because what attracted me to this book was a feeling of inclusiveness.

    I have long considered the human condition and believe to progress as a species requires healing, requires a transcendence above left-right wing politics, transcendence past capitalism (which could work as a simple abstraction unfortunately many including rich and knowledgeable capitalists are not that great with abstract concepts and I think that is a big flaw with capitalism) a transcendence past the mental concepts that hold us back in how we consider worth and value especially in terms of humanity and our conceptions, our perceptions of status and power.

    I am looking forward to speaking with some people with good heads on their shoulders, I will continue reading the book and following the sight open minded as well.

    Some content I have come across so far I have come to similar considerations and conclusions myself, so I curious at what point I very from other people. I think those make the most important and informative conversations. The timing I believe is most critical at that time for varied discussion before people go out and have more varied and biased experiences that make discussions where people are on the same page so to speak more difficult.

    I disagree much with any criticism of the language or structure accept as I said the feeling of rejection for what I consider a difference of experience and perception. I myself am long winded. Some find me very well articulated, where others simply cannot understand my use of wording and I make little sense to them. For that reason, I already identify with the author.

    I was taken to this post through my search of whether WTM was right political movement and the title of the post makes me curious, so although I sound off topic or not of interest, I am where I intend to be.

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