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Hello Willow, Susy, Nicoletta, Kim and all the other advocates for The End of The Human Condition.
This is indeed a wonderful forum
What an opportunity to discuss and reflect on ALL the connections that affect the Human Condition.
The major and magnificent insight is the Scientific Comprehensiveness of Jeremy Griffith’s work – Freedom – The End of The Human Condition.
This focal point, this vanishing point, where all paths lead, is the ultimate destiny of full human realization.
It is the light of reason investigating its’ own immensely complex composition. This is both exhilarating and fraught with danger.
Jeremy Griffith’s work is the apogee of the wholeness, interwovenness, and the intricacies of this masterful design. In the words of the great Irish poet, W.B. Yeats;
‘Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold’ (The Second Coming)
‘The centre cannot hold’. because we can’t find the centre. Consciousness, fully aligned with the true science of Australian Biologist, Jeremy Griffith, leads us towards the light of true reason. That ‘still point’ where we need to be still, to learn, listen, think and reflect.
At last. The drawing together of all strands of the web of human existence is revealed.
The aridity of the empirical sciences is dismal, lacking any fertile ground for growth, a desert where, in the words of T.S. Eliot: ‘Here is no water but only rock, Rock and no water and the sandy road’ (The Wasteland) ‘If there were water, we would stop and drink”
Young people crave understanding but because of
the Deaf/Denial/Resigned state that Jeremy Griffith’s so tragically portrays, these young,tormented souls are left grappling alone in the dark.
Consciousness is crying out for the answers to the human predicament.
As W.B.Yeats expressed it in The Second Coming -”Surely the Second Coming is at hand. The Second Coming!
Partial, irrelevant, piecemeal ‘explanations abound. The real need is that all paths lead to The Centre. The ultimate vanishing point of all insightful perspectives. The True Meaning of Science.
If we fail to comprehend the import of Jeremy Griffith’s work, we will be haunted by that apocalyptic vision:
Jeremy Griffith’s stark reminder of the state of ‘Terminal Alienation’. The potential consequences of which are a nightmare:
“And what rough beast, its hour at last come round, slouches towards Bethlehem to be born”. W.B. Yeats (The Second Coming)
The late, great psychiatrist, R.D.Laing stated his definition of science as: ‘…a form of knowledge adequate to its subject’ (The Politics of Experience)
From listening to essays based on Jeremy Griffith’s work, it is despairingly obvious that the Positivist sciences, the empirical, reductionist, mechanistic sciences are completely inadequate in comprehending what is required.
The formidable task requires the processing of immense amounts of knowledge to be synthesized into ONE WHOLE. This achievement is the singular miracle of Freedom – The End of the Human Condition. In his profound understanding of the multi-dimensional prerequisite of comprehending the subject Jeremy Griffith has spanned eons of civilizations and their Heroic efforts to wrestle with the deepest questions of humanity’s quest for knowledge.
Thank God for Jeremy Griffith.
The teleological projection of human consciousness, and its Divine Discontent, impelled the human subject into assimilating ever more complex forms of knowledge. The Open Systems Theory of reception and synthesis was an agonizing purgatorial obsession to UNDERSTAND the nature of ‘God’. As Joseph Campbell recognized: ‘The question was not Did God Exist but What was the Nature of this God’. And so the inquisitions and witch hunts and the horrors of heresies were brutality inflicted.
Jeremy Griffith makes the essential point that Religious Faith is the ‘repository’ of the truth of humankind in its mission to understand what was inexplicable and incredibly magnificent and sublime in the cosmos. Man’s place in the universe was a mystery. But a magnificent obsession projected him onward and forward to make sense of this vastness. I think it was Thomas Huxley who made the comment to Darwin: “ Congratulations Charles, you have killed God”. While Darwin’s dear friend Joseph Hooker knew full well the torment and turmoil that Darwin suffered in finishing his book. The Origin of Species.
We’re on true scientific ground when we acknowledge that ‘All things are metaphors’.
Jeremy Griffith has deciphered the codes and reclaimed science for its true vocation – Understanding the multi-dimensional complexity of integration.
‘Science requires a form of knowledge adequate to its subject’.
Thank you Jeremy Griffith.
I have just finished listening to Jeremy Griffith’s wonderful Essay Number 39 Christ Explained.
The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse came to mind – i.e. Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett and, my very own favorite, the late Christopher Hitchens.
I’m not sure who offered the interpretation (or original meaning?) of Religion as Religio – the turning back to the phenomenal self? I think it was Joseph Campbell.
The ‘phenomenal’ self can only be comprehended in the holistic totality of the cosmos.
I know that the biological sciences and physics, appropriately aligned, can offer a wonderful explanation of all such phenomena. The human consciousness integrating his/her multiple dimensions of experience within the ‘Lifeworld’ of the phenomenal universe.
The poet Rilke said, “In nature there is no inside or outside”.
This is not to suggest that I comprehend this remarkable achievement in the rational explanation expressed. I feel it much more deeply. I feel it so intuitively that I can’t wait to delve into the entire Freedom book that Jeremy Griffith’s work has so magnificently revealed.
I feel that the late Christopher Hitchens, whose insight into the difference between the supernatural and the spiritual is important.
It was Christopher Hitchens who loved and appreciated the mystical poets, John Donne and George Herbert. It was Christopher Hitchens whose deep humanity rejected the insulting and deeply divisive term ‘The Brights’ as proposed by Dawkins to be the byword for the Four Atheistic Horsemen. Anyone who followed Dawkins specific creed. Dawkins own messianic crusade, his own distorted religion of ‘freedom’ was one of ‘The Brights’.
Dawkins own loathing and bitter condemnations of all religions are symptomatic of a vengeful, personal vendetta. Although I enjoyed Dawkins The Greatest Show on Earth and The God Delusion, it is a very exclusive, rationalist betrayal of ALL that could be said about the majesty, awe and terror that our life-world incorporates.
The works of Bunyan, Milton and Dante were precious expressions of spiritual searching that Christopher Hitchens greatly admired.
And these artistically profound and soul-searching quests throughout the ages are a treasure trove of the heritage of Hebraic/Christian and Islamic literature.
I am in awe of Jeremy Griffiths monumental achievement, his Holy Grail of truth.
Science, art, literature, religions and philosophies all reconciled, all explicable, all amazing ventures of the trials, triumphs and tragedies of the human imagination.
It is Paradise restored.
I don’t know who said the following but it just springs to mind “there is an immense difference between believing in God and believing in him again”. Maybe a quote of G.K.Chesterton?
The terms ‘ineffable’ and ‘epiphany’ have incredibly rich meanings. Now the time has arrived to experience the significance of these ‘mysteries’ in Jeremy Griffith’s unique and invaluable studies of science and art and the perennial human quest for human fulfillment.
The ecology of consciousness is the all-embracing, holistic integration of the human life-world in the incredible milieu of the natural cosmos.
Oh Willow, Susy, Nicoletta and all the wonderful people who contribute to this forum – how fortunate I feel to KNOW you all.
It is a rare occasion when people may come together respectfully and sensitively to ‘open their hearts’.
In this crazy world – especially in the crazed, Christmas consumer chaos of profiteering, it’s a joy to be here, in this special space.
From prophet to profit the world is crumbling.
Once a celebration of wonder and awe at the sense of the meaning of The Nativity, our western cultural heritage is winding downwards.
Give thanks for Jeremy Griffith who can revitalize the old stories, the ever old, ever new, perennial journeys of the human soul.
This is a time of celebration and light. Since Richard Dawkins refers to himself and his company of ‘Brights’ as he calls them, let us refer to ourselves as the company of ‘Lights’. Festivals of Lights abound at this time of year so let us ‘raise up our hearts’ and give joy and express gratitude to Jeremy Griffith. His illuminated manuscripts, his beautifully expressive understanding of the human soul/spirit/mind of our species are the true epiphany.
Season’s blessings to all, and to all a good Light.
Yes, absolutely. I know that my own specific case was religious trauma. I agree with you completely that it is the entire human species that has suffered for multiple reasons. Unity in diversity now. At least for those who receive the gift that Jeremy’s work has so beautifully expressed.
But all the old terminology still holds true. The notions of redemption/salvation, the ideas of Eden/paradise/valhalla. All metaphors for the perennial search for peace and understanding.
Truthfully I never gave a toss for the God idea. I actually loathed ‘HIM’. But the Jesus figure, like so many counterparts before him, was a tragic, solitary soul.
I remember seeing Jesus Christ Superstar and being so profoundly moved by the song: I Only Want to Say. It was heartbreaking. Jesus reaching a state of terror at the full realization of what lay ahead. His torment and his pleading that if only ‘This cup of poison’ could be taken away from him. As the full terror of his dying on the cross reaches its apogee Jesus agonizes in doubt about the terrible death that awaits him: He questions ‘God’ and demands to know that his own crucifixion will not be in vain. As the inner tension mounts he cries:
‘Show me just a little
Of your omnipresent brain
Show me there’s a reason
For your wanting me to die
You’re far too keen on where and how
But not so hot on why’.
But so many great souls have arisen throughout human history to speak out against injustice. The Buddha, 500 years bc. Mahatma Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, The Dalai Lama etc.
The Dalai Lama states that humankind should find ‘salvation’ through the meaning of the symbols in their own specific cultures. Like Joseph Campbell, who saw universal correspondences throughout the complete range of every myth in written history.
Jeremy Griffith’s mammoth task has brought us back, through the scientific/aesthetic comprehension: ‘…..and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time’ T.S.Eliot..
I can only offer my own understanding as to why Comprehending the scientific answer is so frightening for Some.
I came to this book and to this forum with great expectations. I haven’t been disappointed. I am overwhelmed with joy
and gratitude for its’ revelations of resolution and reconciliation of science with religions/philosophies/myths/the arts etc.
But for those who still live in the denial location, within circumscribed and conditioned lives it must be a very threatening
I remember reading a wonderfully joyful and then awful statement- but a profoundly true and tragic one: ‘We must see that the tree bears beautiful flowers and fruits but also see the man hanging from the bough’ I think this sentence was referenced in Helen M. Luke’s book
The Perennial Feminine.
Such an image reminds us that we within beauty and tragedy.
I was born into a home where my dear, suffering and beloved father was a very conservative, traditional Roman Catholic. My mother
hated the church and would have NOTHING to do with it. She was a joyous, warm and loving mother and a beautiful person.
My dear father suffered agonies of guilt over the fact that my mother didn’t follow his version, the dogmatic one, of the Catholic theology.
I was terrified by my own thoughts of this ‘frightful God’ thing and suffered torments, inner, warring battles with this – maniac of a God.
I eventually threw HIM over but the consequences were far reaching.
I think it must be, to those who believe in any religion, an enormous, terrifying realization that there ‘God’ may not be all that HE is cooked-up to be. Such protective ‘denials’ cocoon the individual and this paralyzed condition is the slow dying of their fearful lives.
This is a terrible inner battle. It threatens not only the structures of their lives but unearths the very foundations of the citadel.
When there is only this inner, traumatized disintegration on offer, the individual life ‘resigns’becommes ‘selectively deaf’ and ‘resigns’ into a inner, some-kind-of comforting zone, impermeable to all threats.
This ‘refuge’ of NOT KNOWING but refusing any kind of threatening explanation of The Human Condition condemns the poor, solitary soul to a life that is totally superficial, inauthentic and ultimately wrought with fear and dread.
Coming Out is just too agonizing so lives are lived in a sort of silent desperation, superficially filled with multiple, meaningless distractions and endless diversions.
I can still feel the fear of my impending trauma from many years ago.
Like Kierkegaard’s Sickness Unto Death, Kafka’s Trial and Metamorphosis and The Myth of Sisyphus.
So DREAD is an enormous block – for believers in Religions.
They simply cannot conceive of these stories as myths, their whole existence is based on the TRUTH of these myths being ACTUAL events.
That’s the tragedy.
And then there is the constant, incessant flow of global multi=media bombarding uncritical minds who watch mesmerized at the nonsense that is daily pumped-out.
The world is in chaos and some people run for cover in the cave of ignorance and diversion.
Thank you for that wonderful explanation of Judgement Day.
Just thinking of the philosophical argument of Freedom and Determinism.
It is a dreadful condition to be immersed in when a conditioned state of mind and behavior prolongs our imprisonment.
The Freedom comes at a very high cost for so many people.
I suppose I am thinking of my own struggles. I fear for all who take this journey into truth because it can be a hell of a time.
How many people will survive the odyssey? How many people will even attempt to initiate the process? And that perilous journey is the only Rite of Passage that can release us from our bondage. It’s in all the myths, all the religions, all the philosophies and not Jeremy Griffith’s book has cracked the code and deciphered the meaning. This significance is immense.
I remember reading – in one night – out of desperation, John Bunyan’s Pilgrim’s Progress. I thought it was a fantastic read. It is a sort of Mr. Men series of books – all the trials and tribulations of the wandering, searching soul.
Of course, like Dante’s Divine Comedy, it is a Christian quest to attain the truth of the celestial mountain.
when I think of all these quests I’m reminded of the Lord of the Rings, The Chronicles of Narnia and so many other Christian allegories of the heart’s desire.
What is wonderful is that science, without any kind of material reductionism can reveal the truth of the quest – The Heroes Journey.
I am thrilled about all that because of love the poetry of our being human. The vast literature of despair, hope, faith, death and resurrection/the dying of the ego the resurrection of a new ego, then a series of death/resurrection experiences until the human heart finds its’ home in the full unfolding of scientific/poetic truth. A wonderful reconciliation.
Hello to all fellow travelers!
I’ve just realized that today is Thanksgiving!
I just want to wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving for Jeremy Griffith’s book – Freedom – The End of the Human Condition.
It really is an epiphany, as someone recently wrote in this forum.
I must say that I continue to love the idea/experience of Advent – I feel SO FREE in admitting all the things that I was too insecure to express.
Knowing now that ALL these stories/fables/myths etc can ALL be comprehended in the psychological struggles to comprehend reality.
Jeremy Griffith has bestowed a most wonderful gift upon us all.
It is the integrity and so profoundly human truth that he has revealed.
He has done this as an offering to humankind. He has ‘marched into hell for a heavenly cause’ Now I can say God Bless Him because I know that
the old language is still acceptable as analogy, metaphor etc.
Every statement, using the old language requires new definitions. So we must always ask the question: In WHAT sense do you mean this, or that, or whatever.
Now that next Sunday is the First Sunday of Advent, The Coming of the Light of Truth has a profoundly new meaning.
Our poetic language and our scientific understanding are in a truly transforming conversation.
I know I will light my Advent candles and put up my crib in the hall and see these symbols more profoundly and more tragically than I could
ever have imagined.
The tragedy and agony of One Particular Life – who believed that his appalling sacrifice was necessary.
So many tragic souls dying for what they believed and could not explain their compulsion to die for something they could not deny.
Humankind is being offered a priceless gift. ‘To Every thing there is a Season’. Let this be a season of joy, peace, and love. The revelation of the science of Jeremy Griffith’s work has brought us home and we can now ‘know the place for the first time’. The comprehension that only an integration of heart, soul, spirit, mind and intellect, in the nourishing presence of science, can unravel the weave of the old threads and create a new tapestry of unimaginable beauty.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
The ‘Judgement’ the ‘Second Coming’
In relation to the question ‘is Jeremy Griffith the personification of the Salvator Mundi. One way of considering the question of redemption is to reject the notion that this idea refers to any particular person per se. Such an idea would suggest an amazing pride/arrogance/hubris. The alternative is to approach the question from a stance of humility. The ‘redeeming’ factor is, rather, a Way of Experiencing Being. To imagine that a Person embodies The Redeemer is to limit our understanding of what is required for liberation. It is the ‘emptying’ of ourselves as ‘identity/subject/individual/ego that allows the opening of consciousness towards Being. Ontology is the philosophical study of existence. The ‘One’ out of which the totality of existence emerged: all the planets and their respective systems and the earth with its’ evolving life. The concept of Plato’s Chora, is relevant here. In The Timaeus the concept of Chora relates to some sense of an ‘amorphous’ being (Open systems theory as consciousness) which somehow partakes of and participates in an experience of ‘infinity’. In a sense I suppose this sounds very metaphysical. But considering it scientifically it is comprehensible. Intuition plays a more considered role in imagining this state.
Consciousness as an open receptacle which absorbs/assimilates/reflects upon that which is a ‘whole’ of which it is a part. The philosophical question of The One and the Many.. So that there is a subtlety of communication occurring simultaneously without boundaries – a sort of permeable membrane that allows for a fluidity of movement. Metaphysics can be explained in this manner.
So the redemption of humanity is the lifting of the veil of illusions about the nature of our own being, those conditioned ways of thinking about ourselves and the world around us.These thought patterns have circumscribed our ‘world’ into piecemeal categories. We fail to ‘see’ the whole and in seeing the whole THEN we can ‘name’ that which exists within this holistic totality of Being. Enlarging our experience of reality increases our capacity to integrate more and more dimensions into a patterned order of existence.
We need to transcend conditioned ways of thinking and behaving. In that way we can attain fulfillment and liberation. So there is a teleological movement towards more integrated holistic perspectives that allows a sort of Godlike ‘bird’s eye’ view from that higher plane.
Thank you Susy and RJ,
This is really phenomenal stuff.
It’s so energizing. It’s beyond inspiring and I can hardly contain the joy of it all. But with that immense joy, I feel such anxiety for those who are in the depths of despair and immobilized by their condition. All the suffering within the sentient world. All the tragedy.
So a balance is of such importance. The joy, hopefully will promote the Good News and steadfastly encourage more and more conversations and positive actions for good.
Thank you both for all the contributions are for initiating this topic. This central, core topic.
Many thanks for all your encouragement. Greatly appreciated.
Yes, I know that you are right. I will definitely be delving ever more deeply into Jeremy Griffith’s work.
I look forward to understanding the meaning of all this complexity and trying to spread the word of all of these wonderful insights.
The future of humankind depends upon these hard-won truths and the beautiful integrity with which Jeremy Griffiths expresses it all.
So, going forward to find the beauty of the White Bird of Truth will be a lifelong pursuit of joy.
Thank you Susy.
I agree with all that you say. I’m glad that you emphasized the inner turmoil of poor Adam Stork. When I was 17yrs of age I wrote in my diary 6 words – Contradiction, Confusion, Conflict, Complexity, Collapse, and Consciousness. This was my mantra.
I think it was Martin Heidegger who said: ‘No breakthrough until breakdown’. I concur.
A biological understanding of our present predicament is of immense interest. But how many of us are prepared to admit that we are animals? Human animals who have evolved the amazing capacities for creative imaginative expression and the egocentric drives for domination, manipulation and destruction.
I’m very heartened that the biological sciences can now explain these warring factions.
The maternal nurturing (if the environment allows) can provide essential qualities of care that can imbue a child’s life with the joy of gradual exploration and fulfilment.
For a full understanding of any situation it must be contextualized. The context is no longer the village or the tribe but the global arena which the human mind must comprehend.
Consciousness is forever expanding outwards and upwards towards organizing and ordering its world. Making sense of all this information is mind boggling. It’s tragic to witness so many devastated lives. Young people desperately searching for answers that might make sense of all this information. It is wisdom we need, knowledge and understanding.
Jeremy Griffith seems to be saying that the concept/idea of Divinity is the human imaginative projection of its own inner aspirations towards higher and higher complexities of integration.
Religions, Myths, Philosophies can now be understood as human attempts to order apparent chaos.
Do you think that Jeremy Griffith would concur with Joseph Campbell’s belief that ‘ God is an intelligible sphere whose centre is everywhere and circumference nowhere’.?
I know that he would never interpret this as human hubris. Humility is intended. We are not the agents/creators of the cosmos or of ANY life on earth, we are lifeforms curious about ourselves and our life-world.
Somehow within the human animal there is a need to worship or maybe the word is experience awe, wonder at the magnificence of this unique planet.
What part do you think physics plays in the human consciousness immersed in this life-world?
In all humility it seems that Prometheus, Lucifer and Adam far from committing transgressions are the heroes of the human story.
It certainly relieves us of the burden of guilt, blasphemy and original sin.
It’s a sort of Paradise Regained?
I love Adam Stork. All I can say is that it seems to fit my own experience of his dilemma.
Let’s say that one has an intuition, a sense that there is more to any present context in which one might be embedded.
Such a sense of unease, dissatisfaction leads one to embark on a different course of action. A moving away from a formerly cohesive group of instinctive behavioral action. The group is upset, disturbed, alarmed and annoyed that one is seeking other ways to experience THEIR reality. The GROUP reality has repeated the same instinctual behavior in a totally unconscious manner over millennia.
Poor Adam Stork senses something amiss, some needling sense of something beyond the norms of the group and flies off in another direction. The group are annoyed, angered, resentful of his independent ‘betrayal’ and he knows that these feelings make him feel uncomfortable, fearful, unsure, lonely and alienated. but he cannot explain to them or to himself WHY he is doing What he is doing.
It’s a truly dreadfully upsetting feeling for Adam Stork. He is being rejected by the group but some profoundly important impulse within him is calling him to further exploration outside of the cultural context of the Groups instinctual actions.
The result for Adam Stork is a state of dread, loss and confusion. He experiences an undeniable ‘call’ to explore beyond the strictures, structures and scriptures of a present, unworkable content for HIM = Adam Stork. This is the agonizing source of dislocation, when a present context is unworkable and a future context, that beckons, is unknown. It’s a long, long process of discovery. It’s a lonely and isolating journey, a sad and painful Rite of Passage.
Above all, it is a fundamental prerequisite for knowledge, to relinquish the supposed security of the group and strike out onto a new and unknown path of discovery of SELF. It is, in a sense, a Pilgrims Progress towards a new enlightenment. An arduous but vital journey for liberation.
Thank you so much for your wonderful reply. I actually forgot what forum I was on and went to a different one! So silly!
I greatly appreciate the terrific response that you presented to help me on my journey. I felt the truth of what you said so deeply. Almost a new spiritual awakening to the marvel of it all. To imagine the possibility of this integration is profoundly meaningful. The science and the spiritual explanations seem to fit like a jigsaw. The beauty of it all. The tragedy of it all that it has destroyed so many ‘souls’ in the process of its unfolding. I am overawed by the journey of understanding ahead of me. You have guided me now in the right direction – like Virgil leading the way – The Divine Comedy can be viewed in a new and amazing scientific light. It seems that T.S. Eliot’s ‘Redeeming of the dream’ is now possible. The aesthetic longings, yearnings and search for a new ‘model’ ‘paradigm’ is available to us all. A truly magnificent offering of liberation. New interpretations are now explained. And the longed-for realizations are being born.
I suppose, that for those, like myself, who are more inclined towards the realities of the suffering earth, the human animal and all sentient beings thereon, have found it difficult to absorb the science of the reason for this immense dilemma.
Jeremy Griffiths embraces so many dimensions within his comprehensive world view that it is a totality of comprehension that I long to fully understand.
What a fantastic offering he is bestowing upon this earth.
And so many thanks to you for leading me towards this new, true and beautifully holistic enlightenment within the complimentary fields of science and art.