Transcript of the video titled
‘Jimmy’s Transformation and the Transformed State’.
Jeremy Griffith speaking about Jimmy’s Transformation
and the Transformed State, in Sydney on 25 Feb 2017
Jeremy: I think Jimmy you had a situation where your mother died when you were 16.
Jeremy: And I was talking to some people about that here today. This is not rocket science; it is pretty easy to work out everything now, using this framework, honest knowledge. So you’re 16 right? Your mother dies and that’s going to be like a spear through the heart right? And you’ve just come through or on the edge of Resignation [see , or ]. If I try to walk a mile in your shoes at that point, feel what it was must have been like, to have to resign is to actually kill off soul, and your mother represents soul right? So it’s actually going to be a big incentive not to resign, not to kill off your soul, because she meant so much to you, you can’t turn your back on her, disown her, who she was, it was so precious to you. So I think if you lose your mother in the midst of Resignation, it’s going to make Resignation hard because in effect you’re going to have to kill off your mum which is exceptionally hard, to disown her kind of thing. So I suspect that because you were able to hear this and read this, there must be some sort of ‘ship at sea’ aspect to you [again, see ], and it might source at that event. So Jimmy you were saying when you came in the door that you’ve had this sort of epiphany a couple of weeks ago, just tell us a bit about that.
Jimmy: Yeah it was off the back of the email trail between you and Franklin [these emails between Jeremy and Franklin will soon be available on our website as a book]. It was around that Sunday night when you sent through the ‘tsunami of love’ one, and it was something in that last couple of emails that helped me. Obviously since about 2003 when I read A Species In Denial, I knew the information was true, but then for the next 13 years just didn’t really move on from that at all. But I just got the sense reading that email trail—I’ve only ever been sort of listening to you and watching your videos—but now Franklin is in the mix, and so it’s growing, and then you can see how it’s actually going to grow out in these rings of hear-ability. I think because once that sunk in, that’s what also sunk in was that this is actually true. So it’s true but it’s really true.
Jeremy: You said at the very beginning, ‘I knew this information was true’, so what’s this new form of true?
Jimmy: It’s sort of applying the information to myself as well, so it’s seeping in at a deeper level. So back then it was just, ‘Yeah it all makes sense’, and I remember going into the world and looking at people and making sense of things here, there and everywhere, and then that ability to be free of the old world has sort of lessened over time. But this was different to that and it was, ‘This is this is all true and what I’ve been living off is actually the false thing’. And it was the email from you, then Franklin’s reply, and that building of momentum that was growing that actually felt like it’s sort of unlocked that ability to know that that’s actually true and the old world is actually false.
Jeremy: OK so you ticked the boxes and said, ‘This information all makes sense.’
Jeremy: But you’re in the Mexican Standoff, the equivalent of these blokes when they were still living off the power, fame and glory trip, the resigned strategy to life. So you were in the stage we call ‘pocketing the win’, ‘having your cake and eating it too’. You were saying, ‘Oh the information stacks up but I’m going to pocket the win’. Pocketing the win means you actually use, you’ve now got insight/information of what everyone is doing to actually get more wins. [See .]
Jimmy: Yeah. Yep.
Jeremy: So you pocket the win. It makes you more empowered, ‘They don’t know what’s going on. I do. I can be even more successful’, which is a rip off kind of thing. So you said, you knew it was true, but you’re still soaked in the old power, fame, fortune and glory. Like you said, ‘I’ve got a good wife and wonderful kids and I’m happy with that, what’s wrong?’ So you couldn’t shake off that attachment to that power, fame and glory trip, the resigned strategy.
Jimmy: Yeah. Yep. But then over time, obviously I’m 38 now and I was getting a bit desperate in my lack of progress. So recently I’ve really been trying hard to take that next step. And I remember talking to [WTM member] Tony Miall in one of those video calls we had together and he used the analogy that it’s like breaking in a horse, you don’t want to push it too far, you just need to do a bit and then back off. And especially since Franklin came on the scene I was really trying to actually take that next step. I was being very mindful of all my little interactions in the world and how I was actually trying to get a win here and there and every time you speak to someone, you’d go in there and you’re trying to get something out of it for yourself. And then once that ‘tsunami of love’ email chain came through and literally the day after, I just noticed when I went out into the world that day, that wasn’t happening. So I would actually go and speak to someone and I could actually hear what they were saying back to me, and I wasn’t going in with some kind of agenda into that interaction. And what I also noticed was because of that, and this has only been two weeks, people’s reaction to me is different and that it kind of spirals, and you almost have to tone it down when you’re at work and you’re in a meeting and all have to get work done!
Jeremy: So you are sort of saying that you changed sides from being wedded to that power, fame and glory resigned strategy, you are suddenly were no longer wedded to it, it was transparent to you.
Jimmy: Yeah it’s definitely there and it’s an internal conversation I’ve had, probably two or three of those in the last two weeks, where my old strategy almost tries to reassert itself. But then, I’ve got notes in my phone about what I did to push that back, like re-reading the email chain and it’s almost like you know you have this ability to logically blunt that off and to keep in this framework that actually allows me to, it’s almost like it feels like you’re drunk or high but you’re not. You actually have this openness which I’ve never had, never had. Usually, especially in social situations, I’ll be really quite reserved and I usually try and have a couple of beers just to calm myself, but that kind of nervousness that’s all gone, and I can just feel it that when I interact with someone it’s not there anymore it’s not that need to get a win out of it.
Jeremy: So are you two guys [Franklin and Stefan] watching this closely? Because this is somebody who has been living with this information and is talking about having put things in ‘a suitcase’ [this analogy is used in ], left those things behind, and taken up this free state, free of the human condition. This is a little description right in front of us, because we hadn’t heard it before, of having made this transformation. So he just described a certain freedom he’s got, a joyousness. [See , and about the Transformed State.]
Jimmy: And it was almost something that happened overnight. So I woke up and there was just something different on that Monday morning, and then obviously I noticed it because I was watching for it. I’ve been watching for it for a long time. But then once you sort of feel it and you’re in this sort of positive feedback loop, like you interact with someone and they look at you slightly differently because you are not going into that interaction trying to get something out of it, and then it just goes from there. Yeah.
Jeremy: Tony [Gowing], what do you think about all this?
Tony Gowing: Yeah, I mean it certainly sounds like the early stages of the Transformed State in that sense. I mean it makes complete sense to me. If anything’s going to get through the procrastination, if you like of that Mexican Standoff, it’s going to be those emails, and then particularly the ‘tsunami of love’, where, ‘Something’s actually happening here and I’m going to miss out, I’ve been doing this for 13 years and I can’t just keep doing this.’ There was that email you wrote, something like, ‘I’ve just got to support’ or something, ‘We just need to support this’, which is sort of that realisation I suppose where you’re really starting to go, ‘Hang on a minute.’
Jeremy: Jimmy wrote: ‘Reading how Jeremy doesn’t know how to take in the good things happening to him made me sad and quite angry for a moment but very quickly this became a resolve just to help’ (WTM correspondence, 2017). We’ve never heard that from you before.
Jimmy: No. It was also the email chain; it gave an insight into what’s going on here at the WTM in Sydney. For example, Tony’s conversation with you, and you sort of sharing that, that you’ve been enormously hurt by the whole process of the journey of bringing the understanding of the human condition to a denial-filled world, it just made it far more real. And then of course the whole, it’s actually happening you know, it’s real, it’s happening. There are people involved here getting hurt and it actually is what it says it is, so I need to move on it.
Jeremy: OK, so this is enormously precious for you, to be able to get ‘out of your bubble’. I have this ‘bubble drawing’ I’m not sure whether you’ve seen it, that I did of the stages in freeing yourself from a psychosis.
When you’re in ‘your bubble’ you can’t see out of it, and you’ve got to get outside the bubble before you can start to ‘rat on’ your behaviour. You’ve got to be able to get outside your bubble and start to see what you’re doing. That’s what I’ve been doing with you two, Franklin and Stefan; every day I’ve been performing therapy, I keep talking about this other world because I know how much you detested this false world, and no one will ever admit that it is even false. So I just rat on it hour after hour in front of you, because I know the therapy that must be ripping through your whole body, the relief that finally someone has blown the whistle on what the hell is happening over there, ‘Phew! Phew!’ is how it must feel to be draining it out, the absolute relief! So I’m actively, I’m outside the bubble doing it for you to get you speeded through, so you’re outside the bubble and you can see more and more, ‘Yeah, I have been doing that. Oh yeah! I was playing that game big time, and I was playing that, and I wasn’t happy doing that’. That’s how therapy works, that journey starts from not being able to see outside your bubble.
The transformed state—in terms of what Jimmy just said—is really important, because Jimmy has just said that he was stuck inside the bubble for 13 years or something. And then the power of that dialogue with us Franklin, especially ending in that crescendo of the ‘tsunami of love’, because I knew that, the moment Franklin sent that email and said something about ‘this frees you up’ or something.
Annie Williams (Annie): ‘Armed with understanding and robed in sunlight. What can stand against that?’
Jeremy: Good on you Frangipani [WTM member Annie Williams], say that again.
Annie: ‘Armed with understanding and robed in sunlight. What can stand against that?’
Jeremy: ‘Armed with understanding and robed in sunlight. What can stand against that?’ When you said that Franklin, boombo! I knew I was home because what did I do? I said, ‘Right I’m going to run with that like you would not believe!’ I know the great weapons on this Transformed State and that’s Joel and Isaiah from the Bible and Tony Gowing’s writing actually. I’ve actually added to that email to Franklin since, because we’re publishing these emails as a whole series, and I added Tony’s because Tony has got some wonderful descriptions of the Transformed State. So I wheeled them straight in, Joel’s ‘They charge like warriors; they scale walls like soldiers. They all march in line, not swerving from their course. They do not jostle each other… [Joel 2]’. And Isaiah! What about Isaiah! The description like, ‘Water will gush forth in the wilderness and streams in the desert [Isaiah 35]’. Oh it’s just unbelievably beautiful stuff. All those people so long ago, I said it in there I think, Joel is 800 and Isaiah is 600 , something like that—a long, long time ago—but all they were interested in was this day, this minute, right this minute, this day, this week. [See .] What’s happening now—because everything else in between is just crap, more and more fighting, wars, it’s just shit; men trying to get a win, build big castles and promenade outside the castle, ‘You want to come in you’ve got to pay deference to me’ and all this shit that’s going on. They just lived for this day, so I wheeled them in straight away, and said ‘That’s it, exactly! We’re out of here!’ And I wondered if everybody would get that, because it was such a significant thing, the trick I’d played kind of thing by running with what you’d done, ‘You start it, I’ll finish it like you won’t believe!’ So ‘Phwoom!’ I raced to the finishing line and explained how good it is. And I was wondering if anybody would get it, what I’d done there. And sure enough [WTM member] Sam Akritidis sends his email in about the ‘tsunami of love’ and it was just spectacular what he says! Oh it was so good! Oh I didn’t know Sam could write at all, let alone that!
But what was so funny was the next day I put the ‘tsunami of love’ bit into our group newsletter because it was so good. So as part of that send-out it goes out to Sam’s mate Frank [WTM member Frank Balamatsias], and Sam sends us this email of what happened after that. Frank has rung him up and says, ‘Sam, have you seen the latest newsletter?!’ This is Sam talking about himself: ‘No I haven’t, what are you all steamed up about Frank?’, and Frank says, ‘Look, you’ve just got to see it, right now! Open your Inbox right now!’ This is Sam relaying what happened: ‘OK, OK, Frank I will. OK, OK’. It goes on like this. Frank says ‘You won’t believe it! Jeremy’s described what you wrote as going down in the whole history of the human journey as one of the great moments! Can you realise what that is? You don’t have to do anything again for the rest of your life Sam!’ [laughter]. It’s the funniest email! It’s Sam ratting on himself, relating Frank getting so excited. I had said this response from Sam Akritidis stands on a pinnacle in the whole of the human journey it’s so precious what you’ve said here Sam. And Frank has got so excited about this. It was an amazing little passage of stuff because, oh I mean I love Joel and the ‘Joel Effect’ as I call it. It’s gone down in history in our little group. We talk about it all the time. But you walked into that one Franklin, you know you got it there, because you’re so good on paper, you’re so articulate, you express yourself so well, and it was just beautiful.
So that’s very interesting. So Jimmy saying that our little back and forths in those emails actually walked him along and then it builds up to this crescendo and Sam throws in the ‘tsunami of love’ to put the icing on the cake, and poor old Jimmy sort of went, ‘Wow!’ [laughter] ‘Where do I sign?!’ [laughter] and that cracked it for you.
Jimmy: Yep. Although I’ve got to say I respond more to that middle thing, I think I’m sort of moving away from that bubble in your diagram.
Jeremy: Yeah. You’re two weeks into it.
Jeremy: If we stopped and were to replay what Tony Gowing just said, as I told you earlier, you have got to listen to every word Tony says. Tony says that’s the beginning of the Transformed State because you’ve got to cement it in. Once you’ve tasted it you can do it again and again. You get terrified you won’t be other reproduce it.
Jimmy: Yeah that’s why I’m writing stuff down about how I get back to that positive.
Jeremy: Yep, documenting it. Because it’s so good to have found freedom that you’re scared you’ll lose it. What you said was, you said it twice, ‘I’m talking to friends and I know’—which is out of the bubble stuff—‘that a week or two ago I would have been listening to what they’re saying and recasting it in my way to get a win out of it, or some way like that’, so it would have been a game, game, game. ‘But now I’m not. Now I’m seeing what I used to do and not needing it.’ And then you went on twice also to say how much relief that’s bringing you, how much freedom, I think ‘free’ was the word, and how special that is. And that is the Transformed State, when you let it go and discover life on the other side. [For more on the Transformed State, see .]
It was really funny the other day, it might have been the talk last weekend when everyone was here I can’t remember, but I get frustrated with the transformation stuff and I said, ‘I’ll just tell you the St Paul story and explain why he fell off his donkey’, because that’s so easy to understand. So I head into my old spiel: so St Paul is an upset, angry human and he’s probably a power addict from hell, and he wants to hammer these innocents who are supporting this innocent, and bury the soul and stop its condemnation. He was on the road and was there giving voice to the stoning of Stephen, for Stephen’s defence of Christ, because Stephan said ‘You can get stuffed I’m not going to disown him’, and they killed him. And Saul (as St Paul was known before his conversion) was there giving voice to that/support for that. Then he’s on a donkey on the road to Damascus to get permission to jail them all and put an end to them forever. So he’s one hateful, ferocious, soul-hating individual, really messed up. If you walk a mile in Saul’s shoes, he was a very angry human, very smart, he knows everything, read all the books, is very well-educated, probably about your ages, maybe yours Franklin, because he did a lot in a very short time; and I’ll explain what happened: he’s really going to hate himself for being such a ferocious monster. I mean every now and again everybody no matter where they are can see a little bit like this [pointing to the different ‘bubble’s in the ‘bubble diagram’], how full of crap they are or whatever, and detest it and loathe it. So he’s got this ultimate sort of paradox because he’s got so much anger in him, but he’s got this obvious innocent in his midst. He never met Christ but he met Stephen so he knew this guy was the real deal, this guy was an exceptional innocent, a wonderfully sound person, and that he’s setting about trying to eliminate him from planet Earth and hating himself, and seeing this contrast between his hateful self and this idealistic, loving human that Stephen was prepared to die for. And in that moment of hating himself and recognising the soundness of Christ, he just ran the idea, just for a split second, ‘What about if I supported him, not punished him?’ And then he got hit by a bolt of lightning in effect because he realised how he’d be free of his self, he’d be living in support of soundness and truth and he would no longer hate himself. The rush of relief must have been astronomical. [Read more about St Paul’s transformation in .]
It’s like you know, when you’re writing Jimmy you want to keep those writings because they are so precious. But if you go back and try to identify the key point when you actually tried it on, letting go. Well you said it, you’re going to have to go over it in your mind, ‘So I’m reading that trail of email correspondence’, I’ve forgotten the phrase you used, ‘And then I get to the “tsunami of love” and it’s building and building and building, and it was so clean, it was such a beautiful conclusion that I was overwhelmed by it. And that helped me let it all go.’ So that’s your moment of wrestling match and then let it go.
So Saul was going through this and he’s seeing how full of crap, how angry he is and then how innocent this person is and thinks ‘What about if I supported him?’ and suddenly all the pain of his life is lifted. He’s free and he feels this enormous freedom, which you’ve tasted Jimmy when you said, ‘The freedom from living that manipulative life that I’ve been living ever since that moment has been something very precious to me.’ And St Paul had such a relief, the whole of the burden of the human condition lifted off his shoulders in that moment because he lived through Christ. So to my mind no one in the world could not understand that and equate with that; if you let this go you’ll feel the relief of having the whole human condition lifted off your shoulders, and you’ll ‘fall off your donkey and go blind for three days’, or however you would like to describe it. So I’m yabbering on about all that stuff and I said, ‘Why can’t everybody understand my analogy?’ Anyway, Tony piped up and said, ‘Well Jeremy the reason is they don’t all see themselves as angry and brutal and violent, they just think that what they’re doing is healthy and natural and the right way to be.’ So I said ‘Yeah well that’s the reason.’ But that’s the truth. It’s easy for me to sort of describe the transformation using that, but people think he did actually fall of his donkey and went blind, they don’t make the interpretation because they don’t identify with being upset.
[Jeremy leaves room for a toilet break. Jimmy and Franklin talk together]
Jimmy: Oh man! It’s good isn’t it? It’s amazing.
Franklin: Yes it is.
Jimmy: Unbelievable. All that stuff about my Mum is spot on, like I always somehow thought that her dying was somehow a gift. I always, always thought that. And it obviously was because it scattered my whole Resignation. Unbelievable.
Franklin: Yeah, amazing:
Jimmy: You almost just need to stop and need to think.
Franklin: From my own experience you’ll be digesting all this for a while [laughing together]. It’s just like Jeremy says, there is just so much insight that comes from his ability to think so cleanly through everything, and it just filters through all kinds of things that helps you.
Jimmy: Yep, it just seeps through everything.
Jimmy: As he said, every one of those mini blockages you put in, you can actually go through all those. Anyway. [laughing together]
[Jeremy returns to the talk]
Jeremy: Anyway this is really good for you guys, Franklin and Stefan, to hear somebody, actually in front of us all—because we haven’t heard it before—tell you about his transformation, what happened. Thirteen years of ‘pocketing the win’ and not being able to move, and then through our correspondence, and Sammy’s wonderful ‘tsunami of love’—did you ever get to see that correspondences on the next day? Did anyone send it to you?
Jimmy: Yeah, yeah. Yeah the email, absolutely.
Jeremy: Not Sam’s but one that described Frank ringing him up and saying ‘You’ve got to read this.’
Jimmy: Yeah, got that one as well.
Jeremy: That’s really funny!
Jimmy: Yeah it’s classic! [laughter]
Jeremy: It is a classic. It is so funny. It is so funny. It was good to meet them because I’ve never met Frank. He’s such a likeable guy, he’s got a heart of gold Frank. Frank is so soft and they sort of work well together.
So that was very special. That’s a little window into how hard it is to get the Transformed State, yet how easy it is—which is Tony Miall’s thing that it’s like stepping across a matchstick—and yet it’s like trying to climb Mt Everest. What’s interesting in it is what helped you do it which was those emails and the ‘tsunami of love’ because it is so infectious that build up. And how good was that that Annie actually remembered the key words, ‘robed in sunlight’ or something. What was it? It was bloody good stuff. God mate you can write! Anyway that was the help that Jimmy needed to sort of let it go and now he’s writing it down furiously so he doesn’t forget it, and tries to stay on the free side, but once you’ve cracked it you can—Well, Tony, you take over, what do you think? Where to from here for Jimmy?
Tony Gowing: Yeah I mean it does take practice. It just takes a while to continue doing that jig in your mind over and over again. The key thing, well it’s always been key for me, and Biggsy [WTM member Jοhn Bіggs] taught me, is the 100% rule, especially at this stage of where the project is up to. The old world and the resigned state is in ascension so it’s very hard to keep that clarity all the time because everywhere you go, every person you’ll meet every situation, and yourself—all combined—will all be saying, ‘Go back to the way you’ve been doing it mate, and don’t make too big a change.’ So that’s where that 100% rule comes in. If you don’t really give yourself to this information and start supporting it and living it, it’s really hard to stay connected to it, for those reasons I just said. So that’s the 100% rule. You’ve done the hard bit; the hard bit is getting that ‘fall off your donkey’ moment, the clarity, the seeing through yourself, seeing that everything you’re doing is just been absolute resigned rubbish. And the easy bit is supporting the information, but in these times it does takes effort, especially to get used to it, especially to make changes in your life to be able, like Jeremy was saying, to just shed off all the old, redundant behaviour that you’ve been carrying on with. Doing that does take effort and it does take making changes in your life, like I had to make a lot of strong decisions even in the early days with the Transformed State: ‘Look Tony, I’m never, ever, ever going to miss another meeting; if they ask me to come to a meeting I will go to it I promise you, and it doesn’t matter what I’ve got on, I’m just going to go.’ And I just kept making decisions like that all the time to lock it in, because I know that this is real, I know the Transformed State now, I’ve had that moment of clarity, but you know you’ve got to lock it in and look after it. It’s like Franklin said ‘it’s a little candle in the dark night’ or whatever—you’ve got to look after that flame. And the only way that I’ve seen how to do it is to make some serious decisions about the way you’ve been living your life and getting rid of all the things that are bullshit, the ones that do take you back down that highway to all those resigned ways.
Jeremy: See Tony said, ‘It’s in the ascension.’ The whole world is owned by the power, fame, fortune and glory strategy, so you are surrounded by people who are basically advocating you live that way. So you are trying to live in defiance of everything around you. Like we always say about Biggsy because he lives in the belly of the beast working in Sydney’s CBD, he and Emma. But what’s especially hard is for both of them, well for John especially because he so transformed, is they have got to go and work in the old world, and if you’re a lawyer and you’re in there matching wits with the powerful and famous and the egocentric and all that crap, and there are huge egos in the legal business—trying to live in the old world is really hard—and still come back and maintain his Transformed State. It’s a tribute to how transformed John is that he can withstand that intimidation and that intrusion and still coexist. So Tony is saying if you have got to live in the old world you’re going to be seduced by it all the time, and so you’ve got to maintain that clarity, and feed that, otherwise you get sucked back in and you wake up in the morning and think, ‘What the hell, how did I dream that?’; you lose it. And it’s true you do have to make an effort to try to stay in that orbit. What you’ve just told us and it’s so good to hear it, right between these two guys [Stefan and Franklin], because they don’t know anything about transformation. They’ve just been pissed off with the bullshit resigned world, that’s all they know. Now they’ve got some first-hand experience of how someone has actually lived through this and reached the transforming moment, and that’s really wonderful that they’ve had that experience. Because they’ve got to go home and they’ve actually got to sell the Transformed State and they’re not part of needing to be transformed like a resigned person, because they happened to be on the unresigned side of the fence all their life. So what happens over the resigned side is all entirely new to them, and how much crap they’ve got to give up, and all that and what happens when they do give up. It’s all a revelation to them.
But yeah that’s what I’d do Jimmy. I’d try and come down, a step at a time, say ‘Look I want to go down and stay a day, do this same trip again, go back in the same day if that helps’, whatever, but just try to spend a bit of time here. What have you got? Go on Biggsy.
Jοhn Bіggs: In terms of what Tone [Tony Gowing] was saying, and what Jeremy was saying about, I mean if you really want to nurture the Transformed State, it’s not that. People think it’s mechanically difficult but that’s only because they get themselves into their resigned knot and go round and round in circles. The reason I can work in the CBD of Sydney and be surrounded by other big egos and it doesn’t trouble me is because I’ve learnt as best I can not to wrestle with my resigned self. The most difficult person you have got in this equation, is not all the people around you, it’s yourself. It’s your resigned self [John becomes emotional] because people don’t realise it day to day, but the resigned state is a ‘bomb-throwing terrorist’ and when you negotiate with your resigned self you just sell out all the time. You don’t do the right thing, so you get yourself lost and you get yourself confused and you drift around like a lost sheep, because there’s no honesty in your resigned self. It doesn’t want to help the world, it doesn’t care less about other people, it doesn’t want you to do the right thing, it just wants you to stay wandering around lost and insecure, preoccupied with defending your self-worth. And so when you start negotiating with your resigned self, you just get screwed over.
And I love that, because you have done some precious stuff Jimmy I think in what you’ve said. You’re 38 and you’ve seen yourself wander round like a lost sheep for 13 years and you’re like, ‘This is crap. I’m just getting dicked around here, seriously’. It reminds me of my journey a lot because I wandered round the same thing, ‘I am supposed to be here supporting the information but I can’t support, most of the time I’m getting in the way and causing problems and not helping. This is absolutely terrible!’ But what causes that, is engaging with your resigned self and that’s why what Tony said is so true. The way I do it is to not, is to never negotiate with my resigned self. It’s just not to negotiate with your resigned self; just do the right thing all the time. And if you get that rule right, you’ll be able to survive all the problems, living in Brisbane, you’ll sort through all those other things, all those other things will just fade away and become easily soluble problems, if you get that first rule right. If you nurture that connection you’ve got with this which is a beautiful but fledgling connection, if you grow that and commit yourself to it, and it’s just that commitment to grow it and to always do the right thing, and all the other problems will just melt, just absolutely melt, if you keep that one right. But if you stuff with that one, then God help you because you’re dealing with the devil every day, and believe you me you get screwed all the time when you deal with your resigned self, it’s just what happens. So that’s the way out of there. But you’ve got the beginning of it. You’ve got a hold of it and it’s so basic. It’s not complicated, it’s just dealing with your resigned self all the time that screws you. But if you help yourself and make the space, there’s so many people here who can help you who’ve been ‘around and around that mulberry bush’ [laughter], and made all the mistakes, so we’re happy to help. I don’t get any perverse pleasure about seeing people make the same massive blunders I did, so I’ll help as much as I can! [laughter] If you make those efforts to stay connected, you’ll find it’s not complicated, it’s basic, it’s basic. It’s so basic. If you find yourself getting lost it’s because you’re talking to your resigned self and you’re making it intellectual and you’re making yourself confused. The truth is always basic. I’m resigned, I’m carried away with that, I’m carried away with my ego, I’ve lost the plot, I’m a resigned mess. That’s the reality of it. And if you want to find your way out of that, you say, ‘OK I’m sick of worrying about that. I’m just going to support the information, what can I do to support it?’, and you do something supportive! And if you nurture that and grow that, life’s easy, life is just incredibly easy, and you can wander around in town and it’s not that hard. As long as I don’t negotiate with my resigned self it’s easy. I just wander round and talk to all these other lunatics and I don’t care! But I don’t make the mistake of getting back into a negotiation with my resigned self; I’m just there to do a job to help the new world. I’ll talk to them all day long. The person that’s really dangerous is me, is my resigned self, and if I stay away from that, then everything is alright. In fact it’s better than alright, it’s brilliant, but you’ve got to keep the ‘bomb-thrower’ locked in the cupboard and the padlock in [laughter].
Jimmy: No negotiations with ‘terrorists’.
John: No. You can’t. You just can’t! Mate you get screwed every time I tell you!
Jimmy: It makes sense because as soon as you do something, even booking my flight, and then changing my departing flight to later at 9.30pm, it makes you feel really good, because you’re actually doing something.
John: Yeah, yeah! That’s it! That’s it!
Jeremy: You’re away!
John: I could hear it when you rang me up on the day and the ‘the terrorist’ is saying, ‘Cancel the flight, cut it short, don’t turn up’, and you’re there saying, ‘Oh that doesn’t sound good, I don’t like the sound of that!’ [laughter]. I can feel you wrestling with it. You’re resigned mind is always at you, ‘Don’t be as supportive, go do something else, go fishing, go get drunk’, do anything but the right thing, anything.
Tony Gowing: The one thing I’ve learnt, it’s probably the thing I like the most out of everything I think, is the ability to be 100% sure about things. An example is that I used to be terrible with women, absolutely hopeless, because I had that really hurt side of myself, and I just constantly tried to find a woman to hide behind. And so I’d go and grab the first woman and get her and then I’d just be walking around sort of hiding behind this girl the whole time. So all I’m saying is that I’m absolutely hopeless with women, but particularly seeing Jeremy and seeing someone who has some real strength and real character, as opposed to someone who doesn’t who’s very insecure. But see the TLS [Transformed Lifeforce State] even though it’s not a real thing in the sense that I’m not truly secure, but the TLS takes you from a place where you can be 100% sure, like literally 100% sure, in every situation that you’re in, whoever you are talking to, all the time. And I just love that because I’m so insecure and I’m so crippled but when I’m living for this, I’m not anymore, I’m not crippled anymore. I’m just so front-footed it’s not funny. It really, really helps. So with women, or just with talking to people in the old world, again it was just decisions where I’d actually be saying to myself, ‘Actually, Tony, you’ve got the TLS, you know what’s right. You’ve just got to do what’s right.’ And when you do what’s right it is just right, and I loved that about the TLS and it makes such a difference to your life. It took me a long time to really be able to trust in that and say ‘Hang on no, you do know what’s right, because this information is right, and you can be just as strong as Jeremy in that sense of knowing and being absolutely 100% fearless about sticking up for this information’. You go from letting women push you around or letting the old world push you around and all of that sort of stuff, to like when I go up to people now and they ask me what I’m doing, I say ‘I’m trying to save the world—that’s what I’m doing.’ And as long as I started there I just know that I’ve done my thing and I’ve said what I’m doing, and they can take it or leave it.
Jeremy: Jimmy when you said ‘making that booking to 9pm’ or something and that was relief right? That’s actually the ‘falling off the donkey’ bit. Like Biggsy [Jοhn Bіggs] said, ‘If you’re in a wrestling match with all this resigned shit over here, you’re going nowhere.’ It’s simple. You just live for this. So you let it all that go. So when you had that moment with the ‘tsunami of love’ and the emails, you see you had an enormous bout of inspiration which allowed you to try it on just once. ‘This is so exciting, what about if I just live for this?’ And what happened in that moment is you’re hit with this rush of relief that you’re doing it right, everything’s good and suddenly you’ve got your toe in the door. That’s what happened. And that’s the realisation and it’s so hard because that thing that Johnny talks about, that ‘bomb-throwing terrorist’, that ego maniac and all that stuff, is so dominant, you actually never give it a chance just to support this and not that. Just ignore all that, leave all that, just live for this. So he says it’s not a wrestling match, it’s just a decision to live for this. And that’s what you discovered in that moment under the enormous motivation of all that correspondence, with the ‘tsunami of love’ at the end, you finally had enough motivation to give it a thought: ‘What about if I just live for this because the obscenity of what I’ve been doing is so bad, and this is so good and so needed. I’m just going to try it.’ So you actually gave it a chance, just once, just minuscule, and you’re suddenly relieved. That’s the discovery, that’s the falling off the donkey. You get there by attrition, you get there by walking backwards, you get there because, ‘OK it’s obscene, I’ve been doing that, it’s wrong’, and you persuade yourself that the logic says you should do it right? But the astonishing thing is when you do it, you discover the freedom—that’s the shock.
St Paul got there walking backwards, ‘Oh you know I’m a mad egocentric maniac, I’m full of anger and I’m full of ferociousness, and I’m this and I’m that’, and finally he thinks ‘this guy must be so sound, so I’ll just try it, imagine if I did just live for this person, live for that instead of myself and all that madness.’ And he suddenly turns around as it were, wakes up in this state of incredible freedom, he cannot believe it! He wasn’t expecting that, he’s getting there because the argument says he should do it. He wasn’t getting there because he’s attracted by the freedom, that’s an accidental discovery. That’s what happens. You, Jimmy, got there by attrition, by the obscenity of where you’ve been living and the moment of inspiration gave you enough just to try it, just to put your foot in the door and then you had this discovery, ‘I feel good and I feel relieved.’ And that was the absolute beginning. John said if you’re in there with the ‘bomb-throwing terrorist’ you’re going to get nowhere, it’s a wrestling match. It’s actually about just living for this, and not for that. There’s a clean break. So Tony makes that point, ‘I live for this and suddenly everything’s easy’, and the weights go off your shoulders and the whole world opens up, the whole world opens up.
It is like a near-death experience. In a near-death experience someone falls off a cliff and lands in a snowdrift or something like that and so they think they were going to die but didn’t, so they can report what happened. As soon as you’re falling and you actually think you’re going to die, you give up battling; the whole burden of the human condition just evaporates in that moment, because you think you’re going to die so there is no point, and you just give up worrying about everything about the human condition, and suddenly you’re just absolutely flooded, the world becomes radiant. Everything becomes fabulous. That’s how marvellous it is to be free of the human condition and you’re just tasting that when you give up that whole wrestling match with the ego and all that stuff. You’re only just discovering just how good it is, and it just gets better and better. So then you’ve got to cement that in, you’ve got to try and get back to that state more and hold it on more. But as John said it’s not a wrestling match with your ego, an argument with your ego, that’ll just get you nowhere because it’s so powerful and so wilful and so habituated. It’s just about living for this and not for that.
Westy [WTM member James West] got the TLS. Westy is a really gunned-up guy because his family was in dire straits when he was a kid and he tried to save the whole family, because he’s the eldest. He invented all these amazing designs, so in effect he became a ‘power addict’/‘got to succeed’ type of person, so he’s very gunned-up. So all these people around him are getting the TLS and Westy is a very, very honourable person, has a huge self-image in the sense of being a responsible human. I was at university with his Dad and he was captain or something. So Westy’s got this huge sense of responsibility about him, and so the MSO [‘Mexican Stand Off’] was getting really obscene for him. He was down on the coast putting in fences or something, and he just decided in a clear moment where he saw the situation clearly, just to put in a fence post for the future world. He said, ‘I’m just going to put in this fence post not for my ego, or none of those wrestling matches involved, just for the new word. I’ll do it for that.’ And he actually genuinely did it, and he tasted that freedom—he cracked the riddle. And then he did it again, and then he did it again, and now he’s transformed because he tried it, he actually tried it, and then made this massive discovery—that’s the ‘falling off the donkey’ or ‘going blind for three days’ analogy from St Paul’s conversion. He hadn’t expected to discover what it’s like to be free of the human condition, and it’s the most fabulous discovery you’ll ever make, to be free of the human condition. If you do get in an argument with your old ‘bomb-throwing terrorist’ resigned state, it’s pointless, it’ll argue every which way in the world. So it’s simple, you live for this.
And so when you said Jimmy, ‘I booked the 9pm flight, or whatever it was, and I felt good’, it’s all in that. It’s all in that. If you do more of that, you’ll find the relief will just keep flooding and growing. If you can get down here because it’s so exciting down here at the WTM Centre in Sydney, it’s such a wonderful family, it’ll just help you so much. It’ll be so uplifting and inspiring and honestly it’s just going to keep going; there’s nowhere else in the world, everything else is dying by the minute, I mean by the second, it’s getting sicker and deader. This is the only thing alive on Earth, this little corner of the world. So that’s why I’ve got this hanging around my neck, this little emblem of FREEDOM, because this [pointing to the book FREEDOM] is the only little bit of truth in a sea of insanity. The only other truth that I’ve ever come across is in the Bible but that’s all pre-science stuff, it’s not in first-principle biology—but that is true [pointing to the book FREEDOM]. So you might say, ‘Jeremy, you carry that because you wrote the book and you’re an ego maniac.’ It’s not, it’s because that’s true and everything else is crap, everything. That [FREEDOM] doesn’t disappoint me, so I keep that right near my heart and if I could I’d have it stitched into my skin so you couldn’t take it out. That’s how precious that is, and it looks after me and I look after it, and my world is simple. This is so exciting and is so explosive, and so simple, there’s no flaws in it.
If you read [Transform Your Life And Save The World], it goes through what the difference between this and religions are. With religions the battle still hadn’t been won, so you were weak to give up the battle, but the battle has been won now, it’s no longer weak. There’s no guilt involved in this, whereas there was guilt involved in religion, with terminology like ‘you’re evil’. TYL goes through all the positives of the TLS. Well the only other thing I put a highlight here in FREEDOM—apart from women were man’s ‘helper’ (Gen. 2:20), not the other way round—is :
‘Yes, the excitement and relief of being effectively free of the human condition—the joy and happiness of being liberated from the burden of our insecurities and self-preoccupations;’—so you are no longer in this wrestling match—‘the awesome meaning and power of finally being aligned with the truth and participating in the magic true world; the wonderful empathy and equality of goodness and fellowship that understanding of the human condition now allows us to feel for our fellow humans; the freedom now to effectively focus on repairing the world; and, above all, the radiant aliveness from the optimism that comes with knowing our species’ march through hell has finally ended and that a human-condition-free new world is coming—CAN NOW TRANSFORM EVERY HUMAN AND THUS THE WORLD.’
I mean it’s just a list of a tsunami of positives. You just couldn’t line up a more positive, wonderful things list of things, and they’re all 100% available. There’s nothing, absolutely naught, between us and all those things. All there is is just to let all that go and live for this, live for it every minute. The more you do that the more relief will come. And you will, you will go through all these things, because we’re instinctively, intuitively aware that giving up the battle was a weak thing, so you will go through self-doubt and think, ‘Oh maybe I’ve become a weakling.’ But then you just do the sums and say ‘No the battle is won!’ It’s over. All that Resignation way of living is finished with, it’s all had it, it’s got no validity anymore, no justification. Everybody’s free. Absolutely 100% free. All that is stopping them is habituation to living in that state which is finished with. This comes like a tsunami because it’s so infectious, so unstoppable, so incredibly exciting. So you Jimmy, sneak around and just allow yourself to indulge that feeling of how exciting it is, because you’ve tapped into it now and there’s no limit to how much you can tap into that. At no stage are you being indulgent, or faking it or being fictitious, it’s all authentic. You can indulge that happiness to the nth degree and it’s totally legitimate happiness and it’s unbelievable.
Like I keep telling them here, because I wake up in the night (I do all my writing in the middle of the night and all this sort of stuff) but I have these earphones and I play this 60s music, and I was trying to stop myself doing it because it’s like a drug for me. I just put Jerry Lee Lewis on and I’ve worn out two or three sets of earphones; and I put it on full-bore so I’m now half deaf; and I have these parties in the middle of the night! [laughter] I have to stop myself because I get so excited because I can translate the wording of their romantic songs; I know they’re actually dreaming of the new world through the image of innocence, or from the girl’s point of view through being innocent. So I can translate it. I love Tom Jones; so I listen to Tom Jones because I know he starts off with going home or some bullshit song, but I know he has this irresistible tendency towards the end of the song to get really excited and he really starts pumping! You listen to a Tom Jones song. So what happens is by the end of the Tom Jones song, he can sing like you wouldn’t believe this Welsh tenor or whatever he is, and he gets cranked up and it’s so exciting the end of his songs. So then I’ve got this trick where I have to, I’m hopeless with technology, so I’ve got to fast forward it because I just want to hear the end bit again! [laughter]. So I double click to get back to that song, and then I fast forward—it’s actually very tricky—I don’t know whether the technique I’m using is antiquated or not, but you got to hold it down and it’ll go ‘zzzzoooot’, but not too fast because if you press too fast it clicks to the next song! [laughter] So then I say, ‘I’ll really concentrate and not press it too hard’, and just try to get the good bit. And sure I know the songs backwards, but it’s so exciting because I know what they’re singing about.
Honestly when those prophets like Isaiah way back in the dark ages, something like 2,800 years ago, all they were dreaming of—because you can read those words of Joel and Isaiah and there’s no risk about it—they are talking about what’s happening right at this moment, in this group, this little family of people [again, see ]. That’s all they were dreaming about, in all that time, from that far back, that’s how exiting where we have arrived is. It’s unbelievably exciting. And everybody that’s ever written or anything, in their really good inspired moments have dreamt of this day and lived for it, because everything in between is crap. Well to use that analogy, it’s the resigned world, that’s all crap. You can play it, you can do it, you get a win, ‘I’m captain of the football club’ or whatever, but you know it’s crap. So really there was only one thing to live for, this freedom day, and it’s arrived! And it is incredibly exciting. It is just unbearably exciting. So I’ve busted my ear drums.
You’ve got a foothold in heaven mate and you mightn’t think it’s much, but when you gave that a chance and just live for this, not get tangled up with the wrestling match about your ego, but just live for this, you got a foothold in heaven. That’s what it is, that’s the ‘stepping over the matchstick’ it’s that easy. It’s not involved with that old way, just leave that and live for this! You have this amazing epiphany, you have this discovery of what it’s like to be free of the burden of the human condition, and how exciting it is, and then you do the wrestling match with, ‘Am I a weak person? Or is this a fake thing?’, but it actually isn’t. That’s the astonishing thing. There’s not any ‘dags’ on this at all. It’s absolutely fabulous. Everything about it. It’s the most incredible moment in the human journey. But if you think about it you know how would humans have come through so much darkness to get to here? I mean think of those people in WWI jumping out of the trenches and getting mowed down by machine guns. I mean how did they do that? Where does humans’ ability to keep going and keep trying come from? It’s because of this day; they are living for this day. It’s been the most incredibly exciting goal that we’ve had to be free of this. And even if you go deeper, well Sir Laurens van der Post does [see for more on Sir Laurens]. See van der Post is a really good prophet, because I was going to talk about animals because animals are stalled earlier in the journey. But even animals know that this is down the track, and they still in effect say, ‘Listen, if I’m to be a crocodile and grab all the wildebeest-a-s and given them a hard time like you wouldn’t believe, and have blood and guts hanging out the side of my mouth and God knows what I’ve got to do’. It’s a terrible job being a crocodile! But even that, they do sort of know that they’re part of the bigger journey. And van der Post has a fabulous part in one of his books when he talks about this journey and he starts off with a microbe. Do you know the story?
Jeremy: This journey.
Others: The great ‘Victory Parade’
Jeremy: ‘The Victory Parade’, yeah. He starts off with a microbe, and then that leads to that, and then that, and then that, and then the Bushman having died of starvation, and then the crocodile eating ‘the wildebeest-a-s’, and goes through all the horrors, but they were all were part of this heroic journey. It’s true. ‘The Victory Parade’, and they were all living for this day. If they could all talk, and the crocodile would say, ‘Look for God’s sake don’t be put off that I’m dressed in armour and I’ve got the biggest set of jaws you’ve ever seen and scare you kids to death, don’t worry about it. Just keep doing your job. try to stay away from me if you can.’ They’d all say that. They’d all wish us well. Everybody is wishing us well. The trees are singing our praise and praying for us and hoping—everything is. Everything cannot believe what’s happening.
Nick Shaw: van der Post kept saying ‘it was worth it.’
Jeremy: That’s right. ‘But it was worth it.’ The microbe said this and then he got squashed but then he said ‘but it was worth it.’ And then the budgerigar got drowned in a, I don’t know... [laughter]
Genevieve Salter: Do you want to read it? I’ve got it here if you want to.
Jeremy: Yeah, read it Weavy.
Genevieve: Oh I can’t read it.
Jeremy: I’ll read it.
Genevieve: You’ll just have to scroll down the document a bit. It starts ‘I was allowed to attend’.
Jeremy: Sir Laurens wrote, ‘I was allowed to attend a victory parade, as it were, of all the life that has ever been. I saw all that has ever been come streaming through the long lanes and corridors of my blood, through their arch of admiralty, round the inner-square and then straight down past my own white lighted Hall. Out of the darkness that preceded Genesis and flood, it began with a glimmer and a worm of the unformed earth in love with the light to come. Yes! a worm with a lantern, a glow-worm with phosphorescent uniform, marched proudly at the head, and behind came great streams of being protozoic and pre-historic. Nothing was excluded and everything included, their small fires of being clearly lit, tended and well beloved. This, it was said, is the true, the noble heroic and unique crusade of the love of life. For look, among them not a brain but only matter tentatively and awkwardly assembled. Yet remark on their bearing and the trust with which they hurl themselves into the uncomprehended battle. Ah! tears of love and gratitude burned in my eyes at so urgently moving and life confiding a sight. To feel, at last, the burden that they carry for me in my own blood [the whole of history is in our genes and so forth], to know at every second several of these reflected in white corpuscle and scarlet cell are dying unflinchingly in battle for my all, to know that giant lizard and lion as well as unicorn came after, and were hurled too into similar struggle and defence of the totality of all. I was allowed, too, to see the first man and registered the seismographic thrill of the marching column at the appearance of so skilled and complex a champion. I was allowed to speak to him and I touched his skin riddled with snake bite, his shoulder pierced by mastodon’s spike, his skull deep-scarred with sabre-tooth’s claw. And as reverently and tenderly I took his hand shaking with marshy malarial fever, I was moved to pity him by the evidence of such dread and unending war. But he would have none of it. He looked me fearless in the eye and in a voice that boomed like a drum in his stomach said: “Brother, it was worth it. Whatever they tell you, add this, it was worth it.”
I spoke to a Bushman half-eaten by a lion in the Kalahari, his only vessel a brittle ostrich egg with red and black triangles painted neatly on it, now broken and sand scattered. He looked in my grey eyes with the brown eyes of a people at dusk, slanted to bridge a chasm behind the face of a dying member of a dying and vanishing race. He too, my dying nomad brother, said: “Add, add quick before I go, ‘it was worth it’.” I spoke to an aborigine in the bight of the great gulf Tattooed with dung he said: “I vanish, but it was worth it.” In New Guinea, I met a stone-age Papuan, his black skin sheened with green after centuries in the jungle between basin and fall of water and spurting volcano, and he too said: “Doubt it not, it was worth it.” Everyone said, “Lovely gift of a life that we blindly trust burns with such loving fire in the dark that at any price, no matter how great, it is worth it.”
Yes, they all agreed and utterly convinced me, so that I can never doubt again. I wept when the great procession came to an end, for one and all, great and small—I loved them all. Yes, even to the worm that brought up the rear, with shaded night light and a nurse’s white, in its dress concealing a phial of the drug of the greater sleep made with a touch of the hand of God’s great, good night. Yes…I love them all; I believe them; I am ready for battle; and to continue at their head the journey of them all to the end of the road in my blood. At last, purified and complete, I am ready to awaken and defend my love’ (The Face Beside the Fire, 1953, pp.292-294 of 312).
So how full was he of the journey and he knew we were going to break through, ‘to the end of the road in my blood.’ Van der Post set this up, he actually said under the southern cross these answers will appear: ‘In the midnight hour of the crashing darkness, on the other side of the night behind the cross of stars, noon is being born’ (Venture to the Interior, 1952, p.229 of 239). He also said, ‘[that the bushman] might start the first movement towards a reconciliation’ (The Heart of the Hunter, 1961, p.135 of 233). Amazingly prophetic. As the Victory Parade quote said above, ‘At last, purified and complete [that’s where we are at this moment], I am ready to awaken and defend my love’. It’s amazing. So yeah this is an incredibly exciting time and it’s only that far away [Jeremy holds up his fingers a few millimetres apart]. So you’ve broken into heaven Jimmy. It’s that simple and that amazing. So you want to feed it. And every little thing, you know now the principles, if you feed it, if you do something in that direction, you will feel good. Sure you are going to get a rush, and everybody who joins The New Age Movement gets a rush, or The Feminist Movement, or the Multicultural Movement, or the Globalisation whatever Movement—but this is the real rush, this is the real one. They were all fakes. This is it is it. There is not a dag on this. There’s absolutely nothing negative about it. It’s all on. It’s really, really exciting and powerful. [See , & about pseudo idealism.]
Annie Williams: And the rush is when you can actually stop and hear that other person you are conversing with. You said, ‘my mind wasn’t preoccupied with myself, defending myself, my own needs.’ You can hear that other person, you were open, you were free. It’s that moment I feel that’s quite extraordinary because you actually can see how the world is saved, because, ‘If I’m feeling that, if I can hear the other person, if I can feel for them, if I can be selfless, I can do what’s right for the world, because I want to.’ That’s the rush, because you can see how ‘the pain stops with me’, the pain stops right here because if I’m living for this, if I’m doing what’s right as Johnny [Jοhn Bіggs] says, the world will be saved. And that’s what’s so extraordinary and that’s what Jeremy talks about in , the power of selflessness that’s coming is something that we can’t even admit, we’ve had to deny because it’s so confronting, but people working together, people doing what’s right for humanity, it’s just so thrilling! You go from having a resigned heart which van der Post describes, ‘an age of men with hearts of stone’ (The Heart of the Hunter, 1961, p. 233 of 233), to being alive, to going back to an authentic connection to the beginning of Integrative Meaning and living for each other [see about Integrative Meaning]. But I’m fully defended, I’m a total mess inside, a devastated soul, but I can still feel and love, and that’s all reawakened. It’s not a personal sort of freedom that lights my fire, it is the fact that personal product of that saves the world because you want everyone else to feel that. It is just that Victory Parade; it’s extraordinary how it comes full circle. I can feel all that and live for that, it blows my head off; I still can’t believe it, from my devastated psychological self. It is a total transformation of who I was.
Jeremy: So Annie said, when she began she said, when you said Jimmy, ‘I’m talking to them but I’m actually thinking in a different space, I’m occupying this excited state.’ So you’re really not part of the old paradigm anymore. They’re in another universe.
Jimmy: Whole other, yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah so you’ve tasted, you’re outside of it now looking into it. You’re free of it. To be able to get to see that, you have to be free of it to see it. So you’ve broken out, and after all these years you’ve finally discovered how to do it, and it’s not complicated, and you’ve tasted what it can be like, and you’ve just got to develop that. Tony said, ‘Yeah if you can take some initiatives that will feed it, then that will cement it in.’ The best thing I can think of is, ‘Bugger it! I’m going to fly down and spend an afternoon with the WTM Sydney Centre. I don’t care if they’re digging the trench or whatever’, as Tony was doing this morning. It’s just so good. I mean I’ve been saying it from day one, ‘If you come in here and you cut one blade of grass for this project, it’s worth a whole lifetime of crap you can do outside it.’ It’s that’s simple. You live for this and everything’s meaningful. Live any other way, it’s meaningless. It is now because it’s all over, the battle is won; there’s no justification for carrying on with it. So that inner voice that always said to Homer Simpson in the cartoon, The Simpsons, ‘Listen Ned you’re just weak, you’re not going to fight’, that’s gone. There are no whispers in the back of the mind on this. So I’m just over the moon. I’m just so excited that the you’ve tasted freedom.
Anyway it’s really good for you two guys, Franklin and Stefan, sitting either side of Jimmy, to sit in on a transformation experience because you can see it all there. And so you can see when you are talking to people about the information that that’s really the end-point that you’re looking for, where they get the freedom from the human condition. Up to then it’s a wrestling match and it’s going to be at odds with their resigned state and that’s going to be hard work, whereas the Transformed State is easy. When you really integrate that you are going to have something to really resuscitate your soul. You’ll be saying Franklin, ‘Well, Jeremy said I have to go through all these layers of the onion’, well you used the onion analogy, ‘to thaw out, to get back to that’, but you can actually tap into the excitement of that right now and use that to sort of get there quicker.’ Because if you walk a mile in what said Jimmy said, he said, ‘So I got this sort of breakthrough and now when I’m interacting with the old world, I’m kind of not part of it anymore, I’m doing it, I’m going through the motions but I’m sort of free of it, so it has no hold on me anymore and I can see through it.’ Because you guys have been wrestling with the old world big time, having to ‘fake it to make it’ and pretend to be there, and masqueraded with, ‘You’re a good bloke’ and all that stuff. But like you said Stefan, ‘Underneath I wasn’t happy, I was getting more and more desperate.’ And you’ve got the same journey Franklin. So all those dreams you’ve had of all that crap not happening anymore, and being free, and being able to live a happy, secure life, is right in front of you and available right now. So you can, even though you haven’t gone through all the layers—Tony will be very pleased to hear me say this!—you can go there right now and have a party; be soul-immersed in the happiness and excitement of that world, and be transformed in that sense, even though you haven’t sort of worked through the layers yet, the thawing out process. Because you know the whole equation, you know that’s all crap, you know it’s all obsoleted, and you know that even though it’s an ancient past in your soul, there’s this magic world that you’re still in love with but it’s deeply repressed kind of thing, or buried. It can come to life now, so you can get it out and have a party with it and it’s totally legitimate.
When you play your songs, when you listen to Franklin’s piano playing it’s very sensitive. He’s got very, almost effeminate fingers, he’s very light and soft, there’s a very sensitive side of him, in his music. It’s so sensitive, it’s almost like you can’t allow yourself to approach it, it’s so soft and sensitive your music; and then you’re singing too by the way. When you immerse yourself in that, the sensitivity that you had as a little boy and stuff, that you still love, the shrine within you is so beautiful. It’s such a treasured little place you’ve got there Franklin, it’s so lovely and it’s had to be so brutalised and stuff, but it’s there. It’s in your music, it’s in your writing, it’s in your talk that you gave launching the WTM Centre in Zambia; it’s quite lovely. I mean like Stefan’s talk when he launched the WTM Centre in Austria [see ] is sort of buoyant, like a young 21 year old. It’s quite in your face kind of thing. But your talk Franklin is from further back, it’s sort of softer and quieter; we’ll have to get Pressy [WTM member James Press] to turn the volume up so we can hear you, but it presupposes that that soul in you is a long way back. It’s very precious and very treasured, it’s still alive, but it’s a very, very sensitive soul you’ve got in there. A really sensitive soul. Don’t you think Stefan, when you listen to his music?
Stefan: I know! [laughs] And it’s coming out more and more, and more and more often. And he’s starting to realise it. He’s started to realise it a few days ago, he started to allow himself to realise it, because he realised it before. And he’s starting to employ it. And sometimes just watching him. I was watching you and I can see it coming!
Jeremy: Are you talking about his music or just in his?
Stefan: Not only the music.
Jeremy: Just his life, the way he’s talking and stuff.
Stefan: Mmm [agrees]
Jeremy: Yeah. He’s a funny dude Franklin because he is super sensitive inside, a very soft centre and badly brutalized by the mad world, but it’s still in there. So you can sort of float around the edges and watch, you can live off it almost, he’s got this lovely centre, it really is. It’s so sensitive I find it a bit unnerving because I’m so much a warrior in my life, I’ve had to be, and so I’ve got to go back a few notches behind my level of soulfulness to tap into that, and it’s almost embarrassing.
Annie Williams: You had to be Jeremy, to break through.
Annie: You had to be a warrior to break through. You couldn’t indulge your soul.
Jeremy: Yeah, I know. Yeah I’m just a wreck really.
Annie: Something war-like in a man setting the world in order.
Jeremy: Yeah. But I love the sensitivity. There’s a lot to think about. I love your buoyancy and effervescence Stefan, you’re a big Austrian you know [laughter]. They’re very interesting personalities because the interesting thing with these guys you see, they’re unresigned, clearly. So they’ve got their sensitive soul that they haven’t brutalised. It’s still there. If you sneak around any unresigned soul, like even Olof, there’s something inside there that’s not killed off, and if you are really astute and you tune in, there’s a lovely centre there that’s still alive and that’s precious to be associated with. Even though Olof is really hurt and very traumatised, he’s still alive in there, there’s something alive in Olof. So he showed up at the launch of FREEDOM at the Royal Geographical Society in London, and I’m trying to pigeon hole him pretty quickly, and see where he’s at, because I’ve got so much happening in my head, and I had to keep backing off the layers to try to find and make contact with where he is, there’s so much trauma on top. He’s been through so much. But there is something still alive in there. Like at the end of the launch, I said, ‘Well, what did you like about the talk?’. He said ‘I loved it’, and I said, ‘What did you like about it?’, and straight away he said, ‘That you exposed pseudo idealism.’ It just meant so much to him because it was so painful an issue for him, and if you immerse yourself in that, that’s quite a lot of innocence, because everyone else is bluffed by pseudo idealism, tree hugging and all that crap, but for him it was just really, seriously bad behaviour, seriously on the nose, he didn’t like it at all. How much sensitivity has he got to know about that? To be so full of that awareness?
Well it’s 7.10pm, so we’ve all got a lot to talk about and I’m just offensively babbling off at the mouth because I’m just so excited Jimmy!
Jimmy: Talk all day! Talk all day! [laughter]
Jeremy: I’m just so excited what you’ve told us. I think we all are.
Tony Gowing: God yeah.
Jeremy: If you can just come down and spend the weekend with us, or go and see Johnny [Jοhn Bіggs] in Brisbane. Johnny is a dreamboat, he’s so funny.
Jeremy: Yeah! He’s got the funniest sense of humour, it’s just a scream a minute with Biggsy. I’ve got to go and see Johnny in court to see how he does it, because I can’t talk to him for five minutes without him finding something and absolutely kill himself laughing about it! [laughter]. So I’m thinking, how do you get into court with a serious client and you’re trying to win a case, and you can’t resist a joke coming up, you can’t do it! [laughter] And laugh! He just laughs and laughs and laughs!
Anyway it’s very precious to have you down here. It’s been a great shot in the arm for us. We love you heaps Jimmy, because you’ve been a big friend for us for a long time. We’re so pleased you’ve made this breakthrough and we hope to see more of you. And as for these two [Franklin and Stefan], what a dream them showing up! And how good is that Franklin that your writing has already turned someone around. That’s pretty good mate, you’re a good ‘writer-ara’, that’s for ‘sure-ara’. [laughter] So is there anything else anybody would like to talk about?