As well as watch the video or read its transcript below, you can

Daily Ecstatic Responses!


Acclaimed British actor and broadcaster Craig Conway’s astonishing interview with Jeremy Griffith about his breakthrough biological explanation of the human condition — which ends all the conflict and suffering in human life at its source, and provides the now urgently needed road map for the complete rehabilitation and transformation of our lives and world!

This interview was broadcast across the UK in 2020 and is being replayed on radio and TV stations around the world.

Join The World Transformation Movement Community

{ "metadataHtml" : { "urlId" : "the-interview", "parentPagePermalink" : "publications/", "urlRelativePath" : "", "customBreadcrumbs" : "THE Interview", "language" : "english", "seriesNo" : "Freedom Essay THE Interview", "webPageTitle" : "THE Interview – Jeremy Griffith solves human condition", "metaDescription" : "Australian biologist’s world-saving interview ends turmoil and suffering.", "socialSharingTitle" : "THE Interview – Jeremy Griffith solves human condition", "socialSharing" : "Australian biologist’s world-saving interview ends turmoil and suffering.", "socialSharingImage" : "The-interview-jeremy-griffith-craig-conway_Square_1x2_WEB_1200x630.jpg", "pdfFilename" : "The-interview", "podcastExists" : "true", "cssFile" : "/wp-content/themes/wtm-theme/css/wtm_typefi_general.css" }, "media" : { "video-the-interview" : { "videoType" : "single-embed", "videoPrintDownloadPosition" : "page-level-downloads", "videoAnalyticsTitle" : "Email the interview", "videoDownloadFiles" : "The-Interview", "poster" : "", "videoMaxWidth" : 639 } } }



The Transcript of THE Interview follows





Part 1.   The psychosis-addressing-and-solving, real biological explanation of the human condition


Part 2.   Since this instinct vs intellect explanation is reasonably obvious, why haven’t we been taught it at school?


Part 3.   How did we humans acquire our instinctive cooperative and loving moral conscience?


Part 4.   How does the psychological rehabilitation of the human race that the arrival of understanding of the human condition finally makes possible actually occur?




Craig Conway in radio studio, UK and Jeremy Griffith in Aus. for ‘THE Interview’


About Jeremy Griffith (pictured right)

Jeremy is an Australian biologist who has dedicated his life to bringing fully accountable, biological understanding to the dilemma of the human condition; which is the underlying issue in all human life of our species’ extraordinary capacity for what has been called ‘good’ and ‘evil’.

Jeremy has published six books on the human condition, including the Australasian bestseller A Species In Denial (2003), and his definitive treatise, FREEDOM: The End Of The Human Condition (2016).

His work has attracted the support of such eminent scientists as the former President of the Canadian Psychiatric Association Professor Harry Prosen, Australia’s Templeton Prize-winning biologist Professor Charles Birch, the Former President of the Primate Society of Great Britain Dr David Chivers, Nobel Prize winning physicist Stephen Hawking, as well as other distinguished thinkers such as Sir Laurens van der Postsee

Jeremy is the founder and patron of the World Transformation Movement (WTM)see


Jeremy Griffith presenting THE Interview with Craig Conway


About FREEDOM: The End Of The Human Condition

Front cover of ‘FREEDOM: The End Of The Human Condition’

Jeremy’s book FREEDOM, which this interview is about, presents the reconciling and psychologically healing biological explanation of our ‘good and evil’ stricken human condition. In doing so it unravels the core mystery behind human behaviour, thus ending suffering and conflict at its sourceand providing the now urgently needed road map for the complete transformation of our lives and world.

FREEDOM was launched at the Royal Geographical Society in London in 2016, with the keynote address by Sir Bob Geldof. It is freely available at, or you can purchase hard copies at bookstores, including Amazon.


About Craig Conway

Craig is an internationally acclaimed English actor, writer, producer and director who has worked in theatre, TV and film for three decades. On stage Craig has created projects for theatre companies including The National Theatre, The Royal Shakespeare Company, The Northern Stage Ensemble (Founder member) and the Contact Theatre Manchester. On screen, he has starred in films such as Final Score with Pierce Brosnan, The Current War with Benedict Cumberbatch and The Courier with Gary Oldman. His TV credits include Vera, Wire In the Blood, George Gently, Our Friends In The North. Craig is a member of the Writers’ Guild of Great Britain.

In recent times Craig has developed an interest in radio and now presents his own program on NTRsounds in north east England.

Read more about Craig at:

Craig first learnt of Jeremy’s explanation of the human condition in early 2019 and became so impressed by it he started a WTM Centre in north east England to promote it; see


Craig Conway in radio studio conducting ‘THE Interview’



Part 1


The psychosis-addressing-and-solving, real
biological explanation of the human condition


Craig Conway: Hello to everyone listening. My name is Craig Conway. Now, whilst I’ve been an actor by profession, very recently I’ve been introduced to doing radio where I talk to people from all over the world. Well, today I have a very, very special guest on the line from Australia.

The turmoil and trauma of this coronavirus pandemic has only amplified the now dire need in the world for a deeper, lasting solution to all the chaos and suffering in human life. And this deeper enduring solution is actually what this biologist I’m about to interview is going to provide us with. He is going to do it by explaining and solving the underlying cause of all the suffering, which is our ‘good and evil’ stricken so-called human condition.

So I don’t care what you’re doing, you need to stop and listen to this interview. In fact, I don’t care what you do for the rest of your life, if you can you just need to listen to this!

The interview will be in four parts, each averaging 15 minutes, which is not a lot when you consider that we’re going to be explaining the whole human condition!

So it’s a great privilege to introduce Australian biologist Jeremy Griffith. He’s the author of a book titled FREEDOM: The End Of The Human Condition, and this is my copy, which I’ve had with me now for quite a long time and I take it everywhere with me, and there are now millions of people all over the globe studying, reading and researching through this book that Jeremy has brought to us. [Craig learnt of Jeremy’s explanation of the human condition in early 2019, and became so impressed by it he started a WTM Centre in north east England to promote it; see]

So, I’m here to tell everyone that this book has not only blown me away, it has also impressed Professor Harry Prosen, who is a former president of the Canadian Psychiatric Associationso he’s one of the world’s leading psychiatristsand he said, and I quote, ‘I have no doubt Jeremy Griffith’s biological explanation of the human condition is the holy grail of insight we have sought for the psychological rehabilitation of the human race. This is the book we have been waiting for, it is the book that saves the world.’ End quote.

Now, I think everyone listening would agree that ‘the psychological rehabilitation of the human race’ is exactly what this world needs! So buckle into your seats, this is going to be the most interestingand excitingtalk you have ever heard.

So Jeremy, thank you for talking with us. Tell us, how does your work bring about ‘the psychological rehabilitation of the human race’ and end all the suffering and strife, and, as Professor Prosen said, ‘save the world’?


Jeremy Griffith: Thank you very much for having me on your program Craig. Finding understanding of our psychologically troubled human condition has actually been what the efforts of every human who has ever lived has been dedicated to achieving and has contributed to finding. As Professor Prosen said, finding understanding of the human condition has been ‘the holy grail’ of the whole human journey of conscious thought and enquiry.

We humans have absolutely lived in hope, faith and trust that one day, somewhere, some place, all the efforts of everyonebut of scientists in particularwould finally produce the completely redeeming, uplifting and healing understanding of us humans. I know it must seem outrageous to claim that this goal of goals has finally been achieved, but it has. In fact, the human condition is such a difficult subject for us humans to confront and deal with that I couldn’t be talking about it so openly and freely if it hadn’t been solved.


Craig: Okay then Jeremy, solve the human condition for us, we’re all ears!


Jeremy: Firstly, I’m a biologist, and that’s important because I think everyone will agree that what we need is a non-abstract, non-mystical, completely rational and thus understandable, scientific, biological explanation of us humans.

So how are we to explain and understand the human condition, understand why we humans are the way we are, so brutally competitive, selfish and aggressive that human life has become all but unbearable. In fact, how are we to make so much sense of our divisive behaviour that the underlying cause of it is so completely explained and understood that, as Professor Prosen said, the whole of the human race is psychologically rehabilitated and everyone’s life is transformed?


Craig: Yes, that’s what we want; the human condition finally explained, fixed up and healed forever!


Jeremy: Exactly Craig. So, to start at the beginning, I know everyone listening is living with the beliefwell it’s what we were all taught at school and are told in every documentarythat humans’ competitive, selfish and aggressive behaviour is due to us having savage, must-reproduce-our-genes instincts like other animals have.


An image of two Bighorn rams butting, with one of two Grizzly Bears fighting


I mean, our conversations are saturated with this belief, with comments like: ‘We are programmed by our genes to try to dominate others and be a winner in the battle of life’; and ‘Our preoccupation with sexual conquest is due to our primal instinct to sow our seeds’; and ‘Men behave abominably because their bodies are flooded with must-reproduce-their-genes-promoting testosterone’; and ‘We want a big house because we are innately territorial’; and ‘Fighting and war is just our deeply-rooted combative animal nature expressing itself’and the most common comment of all Craig is that ‘It’s just human nature to be selfish’.


Craig: Yes, that’s exactly what I’ve understood is the reason for our competitive and aggressive naturethat we have brutally competitive, survival-of-the-fittest instincts, which we are always having to try to restrain or civilise or try to control as best we can; I mean that’s what I was taught in school.


Jeremy: Yes, that’s what we were taught, but let’s think about thisand what I’m going to say now is very important, so I hope everyone’s listening closely.

Surely this idea that we have savage competitive and aggressive, must-reproduce-our-genes instincts cannot be the real reason for our species’ competitive and aggressive behaviour because, after all, words used to describe our human behaviour such as egocentric, arrogant, inspired, depressed, deluded, pessimistic, optimistic, artificial, hateful, cynical, mean, sadistic, immoral, brilliant, guilt-ridden, evil, psychotic, neurotic and alienated, all recognise the involvement of OUR species’ fully conscious thinking mind. They demonstrate that there is a psychological dimension to our behaviour; that we don’t suffer from a genetic-opportunism-driven ‘animal condition’, but a conscious-mind-based, psychologically troubled HUMAN CONDITION.


Caveman cartoon depicting the savage instincts stereotype

Our ape ancestors were not savage, barbaric brutes as they have for so
long been portrayed, but rather they were innocent, loving nurturers as
depicted below by the paleoartist Jay H. Matternes in Science magazine.


What’s more, we humans have cooperative, selfless and loving moral instincts, the voice or expression of which we call our consciencewhich is the complete opposite of competitive, selfish and aggressive instincts. As Charles Darwin said, ‘The moral sense…​affords the best and highest distinction between man and the lower animals’ (The Descent of Man, 1871, ch.4). Of course, to have acquired these cooperative, selfless and loving moral instincts our distant ape ancestors must have lived cooperatively, selflessly and lovingly, otherwise how else could we have acquired them? Our ape ancestors can’t have been brutal, club-wielding, competitive and aggressive savages as we have been taught, rather they must have lived in a Garden of Eden-like state of cooperative, selfless and loving innocent gentlenesswhich, as I’d like to explain to you later in this interview Craig, is a state that the bonobo species of ape is currently living in, and which anthropological findings now evidence we did once live in. For instance, anthropologists like C. Owen Lovejoy are reporting that ‘our species-defining cooperative mutualism can now be seen to extend well beyond the deepest Pliocene [which is well beyond 5.3 million years ago](‘Reexamining Human Origins in Light of Ardipithecus ramidus’, Science, 2009, Vol.326, No.5949).


Large group of Bonobos

Group of bonobos


Science magazine cover featuring Ardi

‘Breakthrough of the Year’: cover of the
December 2009 issue of Science magazine

Various ardipithecenes standing in natural environment

Matternes’s reconstruction of the 4.4 mya
Ardipithecus ramidus in its natural habitat


So saying our competitive and aggressive behaviour comes from savage competitive and aggressive instincts in us is simply not trueas I’d like to come back to shortly, it’s just a convenient excuse we have used while we waited for the psychosis-acknowledging-and-solving, real explanation of our present competitive and aggressive human condition!


Craig: Wow, so that’s a pretty big statement Jeremy, I mean it’s a pretty important point you’re making here. You’re saying that our competitive and aggressive behaviour is not due to must-reproduce-our-genes instincts like other animals, but is due to a conscious-mind-based, psychologically troubled condition, yes?


Jeremy: Yes, our egocentric and arrogant and mean and vindictive and even sadistic behaviour has nothing to do with wanting to reproduce our genes. That was absurd. And it is actually really good news that our behaviour is due to a conscious-mind-based psychologically troubled condition because psychoses can be healed with understanding. If our competitive and aggressive behaviour was due to us having savage instincts then we would be stuck with that born-with, hard-wired, innate behaviour. It would mean we could only ever hope to restrain and control those supposedly brutal instincts. But since our species’ divisive behaviour is due to a psychosis, that divisive behaviour can be cured with healing understanding. So that is very good news. In fact, incredibly exciting news, because with understanding we can finally end our psychologically troubled human condition. It’s the understanding of ourselves that we needed to heal the pain in our brains and become sound and sane again.


Key Unlocking the Mind illustration by Matt Mahurin for ‘Time’, Nov. 29 1993


As I said, the ‘savage instincts’ explanation was just a convenient excuse while we searched for the psychosis-addressing-and-solving real explanation of our divisive behaviour, which is the explanation I would now like to present.


Craig: Okay, so what you’re saying here, Jeremy, is that we don’t need the convenient excuse anymore that we have some kind of savage animal instincts because we have the real explanation of our conscious-mind-based psychologically troubled human condition!


Jeremy: Yes, and this key, all-important, psychosis-addressing-and-solving explanation is actually very obvious.

If we think about it, if an animal was to become fully conscious, like we humans became, then that animal’s new self-managing, understanding-based conscious mind would surely have to challenge its pre-existing instinctive orientations to the world, wouldn’t it? A battle would have to break out between the emerging conscious mind that operates from a basis of understanding cause and effect and the non-understanding instincts that have always controlled and dictated how that animal behaves.


Craig: Yes, that makes sense Jeremy, so what happened though when this animal became conscious and its whole life turned into a psychologically distressed mess?


Jeremy: Well, the easiest way to see what happened is to imagine the predicament faced by an animal whose life had always been controlled by its instincts suddenly developing a conscious mind, because if we do that we will very quickly see how that animal would develop a psychologically troubled competitive and aggressive condition like we suffer from.

So let’s imagine a stork: we’ll call him Adam. Each Summer, Adam instinctually migrates North with the other storks around the coast of Africa to Europe to breed, as some varieties of storks do. Since he has no conscious mind Adam Stork doesn’t think about or question his behaviour, he just follows what his instincts tell him to do.


Adam Stork Story - 1. Storks flying before Adam became conscious


But what if we give Adam a large brain capable of conscious thought? He will start to think for himself, but many of his new ideas will not be consistent with his instincts. For instance, while migrating North with the other storks Adam notices an island full of apple trees. He then makes a conscious decision to divert from his migratory path and explore the island. It’s his first grand experiment in self-management.


Adam Stork Story - 2. Storks flying as Adam becomes conscious
Adam Stork Story - 3. Conscious Adam sees an island


The Story of Adam Stork - 4. Disobedient Adam

Drawings by Jeremy Griffith © 1991-2016 Fedmex Pty Ltd


But when Adam’s instincts realise he has strayed off course they are going to criticise his deprogrammed behaviour and dogmatically try to pull him back on his instinctive flight path, aren’t they! In effect, they are going to condemn him as being bad.


Adam Stork Story - 5. Conscious Adam gets criticised


Imagine the turmoil Adam will experience: he can’t go back to simply following his instincts. His instinctive orientations to the migratory flight path were acquired over thousands of generations of natural selection but those orientations are not understandings, and since his conscious mind requires understanding, which it can only get through experimentation, inevitably a war will break out with his instincts.

Ideally at this point Adam’s conscious mind would sit down and explain to his instincts why he’s defying them. He would explain that the gene-based, natural selection process only gives species instinctive orientations to the world, whereas his nerve-based, conscious mind, which is able to make sense of cause and effect, needs understanding of the world to operate.


Adam Stork Story - 6. Conscious Adam’s talk with his instincts


But Adam doesn’t have this self-understanding. He’s only just begun his search for knowledge. In fact, he’s not even aware of what the problem actually is. He’s simply started to feel that he’s bad, even evil.


Craig: Okay, so what you’re saying is a war has broken out between his conscious mind and his instincts, which he can’t explain, and it’s left him feeling bad or that he is bad in some way, or even evil. So what happened then?


Jeremy: Well, tragically, while searching for understanding, we can see that three things are unavoidably going to happen. Adam is going to defensively retaliate against the implied criticism from his instincts; he is going to desperately seek out any reinforcement he can find to relieve himself of the negative feelings; and he is going to try to deny the criticism and block it out of his mind. He has become angry, egocentric and alienatedwhich is the psychologically upset state we call the human condition, because it was us humans who developed a conscious mind and became psychologically upset. (And ‘upset’ is the right word for our condition because while we are not ‘evil’ or ‘bad’, we are definitely psychologically upset from having to participate in humanity’s heroic search for knowledge. ‘Corrupted’ and ‘fallen’ have been used to describe our condition, but they have negative connotations that we can now appreciate are undeserved, so ‘upset’ is a better word.)

So Adam’s intellect or ‘ego’ (ego being just another word for the intellect since the Concise Oxford Dictionary defines ‘ego’ as ‘the conscious thinking self’ (5th edn, 1964)) became ‘centred’ or focused on the need to justify itselfAdam became ego-centric, selfishly preoccupied aggressively competing for opportunities to prove he is good and not bad, to validate his worth, to get a ‘win’; to essentially eke out any positive reinforcement that would bring him some relief from his criticising instincts. He unavoidably became self-preoccupied or selfish, and aggressive and competitive.


Angry red Adam Stork


So our selfish, competitive and aggressive behaviour is not due to savage instincts but to a psychologically upset state or condition.

Basically suffering psychological upset was the price we conscious humans had to pay for our heroic search for understanding. In the words from the song The Impossible Dream from the musical the Man of La Mancha, we had to be prepared to ‘march into hell for a heavenly cause’ (lyrics by Joe Darion, 1965). We had to lose ourselves to find ourselves; we had to suffer becoming angry, alienated and egocentric until we found sufficient knowledge to explain ourselves.


Craig: Wow Jeremy, I mean this is just fascinating. So Adam Storkwe humansdeveloped a conscious mind and unavoidably started warring with our instincts, an upsetting war which could only end when we could explain and understand why we had to defy our instincts, which is the understanding that you have just supplied, yes?


Jeremy: Exactly, remember Adam Stork became defensively angry, egocentric and alienated because he couldn’t explain why he was defying his instincts, so now that we can explain why, those defensive behaviours are no longer needed and can end!

That’s basically all there is to explain, that is the biological explanation of the human condition that so explains us that, as Professor Prosen said, it brings about ‘the psychological rehabilitation of the human race’! A vaccine for this terrible virus would be good, but infinitely more precious and needed is a vaccine for the human condition, a cure for it, and that’s what’s just been presented.


Adam Stork - from living with the trauma of the human condition to living free of it



Craig: This is such a simple story but so far-reaching in its ramificationsI mean it is world-changing is what it is, because it truly enables ‘the psychological rehabilitation of the human race’! I mean that is just wonderful.

Okay, I’m speaking with Australian biologist Jeremy Griffith.



Part 2


Since this instinct vs intellect
explanation is reasonably obvious,
why haven’t we been taught it at school?


Craig: Hello, I’m Craig Conway and I’m talking with Australian biologist Jeremy Griffith about how we can end all the turmoil and trauma in the world through explaining and understanding the human conditionwhich is the instinct vs intellect explanation Jeremy has just given us in Part 1 of this interview.

I do have some questions Jeremy. Firstly, while it seems an obvious explanation that when we became conscious a psychologically upsetting battle must have broken out with our dictatorial instincts, but if it is so obvious, why weren’t we taught this at school? And secondly, how were our bonobo-like ape ancestors able to become cooperative and loving, which, as you said, must be the origin of our instinctive moral conscience that Darwin said distinguishes us from other animals? And my third question is, how does ‘the psychological rehabilitation of the human race’ that Professor Prosen describes actually take place; I mean do we all have to go into therapy or something?

Okay, by the way, I want to mention also that since there’s quite a few newand very interestingconcepts to think about, Jeremy has said that he’ll make both the video and the transcript of this interview available at the top of the website that promotes this understanding of the human condition, which is the World Transformation Movement’s website at Now this interview will be there as a video, and the transcript as a little free book, so you can re-listen to, or read the interview again there, because, as I said, with this big subject of the human condition, there is quite a bit to take in and think about.


Jeremy: Okay, they are very good questions Craig.

So, to begin with your first question, which is that if this instinct vs intellect explanation is so obvious why haven’t we been taught it at school?

The answer is that while it has been recognisedeven from ancient timesthat the emergence of our conscious mind somehow caused us to ‘fall from grace’, or however you want to describe the corruption of our original innocent cooperative, selfless and loving instinctive state, it wasn’t until science revealed the difference between the gene-based and nerve-based learning systemswhich is that genes can orientate but nerves need to understandthat we were finally in a position to explain the good reason for our angry, egocentric and alienated human condition.

The Biblical story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden that Moses wrote so long ago in about 1,500 BC actually perfectly describes the psychologically upsetting battle that emerged between our instincts and conscious intellect. It says Adam and Eve/​we humans took the ‘fruit’ (Genesis 3:3) ‘from the tree of knowledge’ (Gen. 2:9, 17) and were ‘disobedient’ (the term widely used in descriptions of Gen. 3). In other words, we developed a conscious mind and free will. But in that pre-scientific story it says Adam and Eve then became ‘evil’ (Gen. 3:22) perpetrators of ‘sin’ (Gen. 4:7) because they became angry, egocentric and alienated, and as a result Moses said they were ‘banished…​from the Garden of Eden’ (Gen. 3:23) state of cooperative and loving innocence.


Painting of Adam and Eve by Lucas Cranach the Elder

Adam and Eve,
by Lucas Cranach the Elder (1526)

Lithograph of Adam and Eve being cast out of Paradise, c.1880

Adam and Eve cast out of Paradise, from Old Testament Stories
pub. Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge, London (c.1880)


You see, not knowing how naturally selected instincts differ from cause and effect-operating consciousness, this story of Adam and Eve becoming conscious could only conclude that the angry, egocentric and alienated condition that emerged when we became conscious was a bad, evil, sinful state, but this scientific presentation says, ‘No, no, that story got it wrong’. Adam and Eve are actually not just good but the heroes of the whole story of life on Earthbecause surely the conscious mind is nature’s greatest invention and to be given the task of searching for understanding while the whole world’s condemning you was the hardest and toughest of tasksbecause that condemnation was universal. All the other innocent storks are condemning the search for knowledge, and since all of naturethe rain, the clouds, the trees, and other animalsare all associated with our original instinctive self that was condemning us, the whole world, in effect, ganged up on Adam and Eve, i.e. us humansand yet all the time we were good and not bad but we couldn’t explain why, but now at last through the benefit of science, we can.


Craig: Yeah, I hadn’t realised that, but it is true, I mean Adam and Eve taking the fruit from the tree of knowledge is a metaphor for becoming conscious, and then they were thrown out of the Garden of Eden of original innocence because it appeared that they were bad for doing so, but now thankfully we can explain that they, we humans, weren’t bad at all; in fact, we are the heroes of the story of life on Earth!


Jeremy: That’s right, we can now explain and understand that we conscious humans are immense heroes, and not villains after all. How relieving is that!


American journalist and educator, Richard Heinberg giving a public presentation

Richard Heinberg (1950– )

Richard Heinberg’s book ‘Memories and Visions of Paradise’


And with regard to recognition of the upsetting conflict between our moral instincts and our conscious intellect, the Biblical story of Adam and Eve is far from the only recognition of it from ancient times. Indeed, as the researcher Richard Heinberg summarised in his 1990 book Memories & Visions of Paradise (underlinings are Jeremy’s emphasis), ‘Every religion begins with the recognition that human consciousness has been separated from the divine Source, that a former sense of oneness…​has been lost…​everywhere in religion and myth there is an acknowledgment that we have departed from an original…​innocence and can return to it only through the resolution of some profound inner discord…​the cause of the Fall is described variously as disobedience, as the eating of a forbidden fruit [from the tree of knowledge], and as spiritual amnesia [forgetting, blocking out, denial, alienation, which is our psychosis](pp.81-82 of 282). So all our religions and most of our mythologies have recognised the basic conflict within usthat the emergence of ‘consciousness’ caused our ‘Fall’ from ‘innocence’.


Detail of a mosaic by Monnus of Hesiod, 3rd century; in the Rhenish State Museum, Trier, Ger.

Hesiod, from the Monnus mosaic, c.200

Cover of Hesiod’s Theogeny and Works and Days


Way back in about 800 BC, the Greek poet Hesiod wrote of our species’ pre-conscious time of living cooperatively and lovingly in his epic poem Works and Days: ‘When gods alike and mortals rose to birth / A golden race the immortals formed on earth…​Like gods they lived, with calm untroubled mind / Free from the toils and anguish of our kind / Nor e’er decrepit age misshaped their frame…​Strangers to ill, their lives in feasts flowed by…​Dying they sank in sleep, nor seemed to die / Theirs was each good; the life-sustaining soil / Yielded its copious fruits, unbribed by toil / They with abundant goods ’midst quiet lands / All willing shared the gathering of their hands’ (The Remains of Hesiod the Ascræan, tr. C.A. Elton, pp.17-18). So yes, they didn’t have a troubled conscious mind, and they lived a sharing, gentle life.


Craig: Yes, I’ve heard of the idea of a ‘golden race’, but I didn’t actually know where it came from. So what you’re saying then, Jeremy, is our distant ancestors had a ‘calm untroubled mind’no human condition yet!


Jeremy: Yes, that’s right, and in 360 BC Hesiod’s Greek compatriot Plato gave this very similar description of our species’ pre-conscious time in innocence. He wrote: ‘there was a time when…​we beheld the beatific vision and were initiated into a mystery which may be truly called most blessed, celebrated by us in our state of innocence, before we had any experience of evils to come, when we were admitted to the sight of apparitions innocent and simple and calm and happy, which we beheld shining in pure light, pure ourselves and not yet enshrined in that living tomb which we carry about, now’ (Phaedrus; tr. B. Jowett, 1871, 250).


Triptych showing marble bust of Plato and the covers of his books Phaedrus and The Statesman

Plato, c.428–348 BC; Phaedrus; Statesman


Plato also gave this other description of the innocent ‘Golden Age’ in our species’ pre-conscious past, writing of a time when we lived a ‘blessed and spontaneous life…​[where] neither was there any violence, or devouring of one another, or war or quarrel among them…​In those days God himself was their shepherd, and ruled over them [in other words, our original instinctive self was orientated to living in an ideal cooperative, loving way]…​Under him there were no forms of government or separate possession of women and children; for all men rose again from the earth, having no memory of the past [in other words, we lived in a pre-conscious state]. And…​the earth gave them fruits in abundance, which grew on trees and shrubs unbidden, and were not planted by the hand of man. And they dwelt naked, and mostly in the open air, for the temperature of their seasons was mild; and they had no beds, but lay on soft couches of grass, which grew plentifully out of the earth’ (The Statesman, c.350 BC; tr. B. Jowett, 1871, 271-272).

The thing is, Hesiod and Plato, like Moses, were living at a time when science still had to be developed, so they weren’t able to provide the redeeming, instincts-can-orientate-but-only-nerves-can-understand, good reason WHY we departed from ‘innocence’ and seemingly became ‘evil’, bad people.


Craig: Yes, because there was no science back then.


Jeremy: Precisely, it’s only in the last 150 years or so that science has given us A: the ability to know that the gene-based natural selection process gives species orientations to the world; and B: the knowledge of our nerves and how they are able to remember events, which, much developed, has led to our mind being able to sufficiently understand the relationship between cause and effect to become conscious of, or aware of, or intelligent about those relationships. So that’s only happened in the last 150 years, but since the fossil record of our ancestors suggests that our large association-cortexed, thinking, fully conscious brain appeared some 2 million years ago, that means for almost all of the 2 million years we have been conscious we have had no ability to explain and understand why we corrupted our original innocent instinctive self or soul. And without that redeeming explanation the only way we could cope with the astronomical guilt of having destroyed ‘Eden’, has been to deny we ever lived in a cooperative and loving innocent stateand that’s exactly where the excuse that we have savage competitive and aggressive instincts like other animals came to our rescue.

And, false as it is, it’s been an absolutely brilliant excuse because instead of our instincts being all-loving and thus unbearably condemning of our present non-loving state, they are made out to be vicious and brutal must-reproduce-your-genes instincts like other animals; and, instead of our conscious mind being the instinct-defying cause of our corruption, it was made out to be the blameless mediating ‘hero’ that had to step in and try to control those supposed vicious instincts within us! And those who dared to admit the truth of our cooperative and loving past, like Hesiod and Plato, were dismissed as deluded romantics, and the whole idea of an innocent, Edenic past was said to be nothing more than a nostalgia for the security and maternal warmth of infancy, that it was ‘never an historical state’ as the Jungian psychologist Erich Neumann said in his book The Origins and History of Consciousness (1949, p.15 of 493).


Erich Neumann

Erich Neumann (1905–1960)

Cover of Erich Neumann’s book ‘The Origins and History of Consciousness’



Craig: Yes, and we couldn’t face the truth that we had turned utopia into dystopia, into a dreadful place of conflict and suffering, yes?


Jeremy: Yes that’s right Craig, and I should point out that while most contemporary thinkers have clung to the savage instincts excuse for our divisive behaviour, there have been some who, like the ancient thinkers, truthfully recognised the basic instinct vs intellect elements involved in producing the human condition. Eugène Marais, Paul MacLean and Arthur Koestler are a few who come to mind.


A selection of science books based upon the ‘savage instincts’ excuse for human behaviour

Some of the many science books accounting for human
behaviour using the false ‘savage instincts’ excuse.


Eugene Marais, Paul Maclean, Arthur Koestler beside covers of their books

Eugène Marais (1871–1936), Paul MacLean (1913–2007) and Arthur Koestler (1905–1983)


But while all contemporary thinkers have had the benefit of science having revealed the difference between the gene-based and nerve-based learning systems, and have therefore had the means to truthfully explain the human condition, those who did recognise the basic instinct vs intellect elements didn’t take their thinking far enough to actually explain the human condition. And those who have been attached to the false savage instincts excusewhich is the great majority of scientistsobviously haven’t been thinking truthfully, so they couldn’t hope to explain the human condition. Which is all why it has taken the truthful thinking of the pre-eminent South African philosopher Sir Laurens van der Post, and following him, myself, to finally present the complete, true explanation of the human condition.


Craig: Okay. And Jeremy, I assume that people can read about the contemporary thinkers who recognised the instinct vs intellect elements involved in the human condition, and those who clung to the savage instincts excuse, on the World Transformation Movement’s website at


Portrait of Sir Laurens van der Post in army uniform
Cover of Sir Laurens van der Post’s book ‘The Lost World Of The Kalahari’

The most famous book by Sir Laurens van der Post (1906–1996) (left) is The Lost World
of the Kalahari
, which is about the relatively innocent Bushmen or San people of
the Kalahari Desert. Its title can be interpreted as ‘the lost world of our soul’.



Jeremy: Yes, they can, in particular in the fourth video at the top of the homepage.

Also, how Sir Laurens van der Post and I managed to address and solve the human condition is described in my 2020 book How Laurens van der Post Saved The World, which is also freely available on that website. Basically, what is explained in that book is that since everyone is naturally variously psychologically upset from their different encounters with humanity’s battle to find knowledge, there was always going to be a few who were fortunate enough in their infancy and childhood to escape encountering the angry, egocentric and alienated effects of that upsetting battle, and it is these few who could look into the human condition without being overly confronted by itand Sir Laurens and I were two of these extremely fortunate denial-free thinking people, which is how we were able to find understanding of the human condition.

I should also say that while there is growing support for this now absolutely desperately needed understanding of the human condition, mainstream science is yet to recognise and support itbut that’s what happens with paradigm-shifting, breakthroughs in science. When the physicist Max Planck said ‘Science progresses funeral by funeral’ (Marilyn Ferguson’s reference to a comment by Planck in his Scientific Autobiography, 1948; New Age mag. Aug. 1982; see he was recognising how attached each generation of scientists becomes to the way of thinking they grew up with, and therefore how slow science as a whole is to move to a new paradigm of understanding. And the playwright George Bernard Shaw also warned of how difficult it is to introduce a new paradigm of thinkingespecially one that dares to confront the historically unbearably confronting and off-limits subject of the human conditionwhen he said that ‘All great truths begin as blasphemies’ (Annajanska, 1919). So yes, confronting the human condition when everyone has been living in fearful denial of it, even though it has finally been explained and made safe to confront, represents the biggest of all ‘blasphemies’.


Craig: Yeah, I understand completely. I mean from my limited experience, Jeremy, I know how difficult it is to get people to change their way of thinking. But your basic point is that science’s discovery of the way genes and nerves work has finally made it possible for the liberation of humanity from the horror of the human condition.


Jeremy: Yes, that is the essential truth: science is the liberator, the so-called ‘messiah’ or ‘redeemer’ of humankind, as we always hoped it would be!


Craig: And all this is in the nick of time Jeremy, because I actually don’t think the world can cope with any more upset behaviour from us humansbut of course we still need the scientific community to get on board and support this understanding.


Jeremy: Absolutely. While we’ve had to live in denial of our corrupted, psychologically upset condition while we couldn’t explain it, the truth is that on a graph showing the ever-increasing levels of upset in humans, those levels, especially of psychosis and alienation, have been increasing so rapidly lately that the line tracking their rise is near vertical with the amount of upset virtually doubling now in each new generation! Freedom Essays 55 & 59 on our World Transformation Movement’s website describes this terrifying end play threat of terminal levels of psychosis. Basically, we had virtually lost the race between self-destruction and self-understanding.


The race between self-destruction and self-understanding

The race between self-destruction and self-understanding


Indeed, early last century the author Antoine de Saint-Exupéry wrote that ‘We are living through deeply anxious days, and if we are to relieve our anxiety we must diagnose its cause…​What is the meaning of man? To this question no answer is being offered, and I have the feeling that we are moving toward the darkest era our world has ever known’ (A Sense of Life, pub. 1965, pp.127, 219 of 231), and the ‘deeply anxious days’ have very greatly increased in the century since then, so we are now very much in the midst of ‘the darkest era our world has ever known’so this world-saving, ‘reliev[ing]-of-the-‘cause’, understanding of ‘the meaning of man’, has definitely only arrived in the nick of timewhich means the scientific community definitely, definitely needs to get its act together and support this breakthrough!


Antoine de Saint Exupery

Antoine de Saint Exupéry (1900–1944)

Cover of ‘A Sense of Life’ by Antoine de Saint Exupery


So now I’ll address your other questions Craig, but I should mention that the first of the videos on the World Transformation Movement’s website warns of the difficulty not only scientists have had, but almost everyone has had trying to confront and think about the historically unbearably confronting subject of our corrupted condition which has finally been explained and made safe to confront and admit.


Craig: I’m Craig Conway and I’m speaking with Australian biologist Jeremy Griffith.



Part 3


How did we humans acquire our instinctive
cooperative and loving moral conscience?


Craig: We’re continuing our important conversation with Australian biologist Jeremy Griffith who’s been explaining the human condition and how understanding it can end all the trauma and suffering in the worldand boy, don’t we need that!

So in Part 1 Jeremy explained that we conscious humans became angry, egocentric and alienated because we couldn’t explain why we had to defy our instincts, but now that we can explain this and understand ourselves those defensive ways of coping are no longer needed and the human race is psychologically rehabilitated.

In Part 2 Jeremy explained that the reason we had to use the dishonest savage instincts excuse is because science had to find understanding of the way genes and nerves work, that genes can orientate a species but nerves need to understand cause and effect.

So Jeremy, my second question for this, Part 3, of our interview is how were our bonobo-like ape ancestors able to become cooperative and loving, which, as you said, must be the origin of our instinctive moral conscience that Darwin said distinguishes us from other animals?


Jeremy: Yes okay, so how we acquired our moral instincts has been one of the greatest mysteries in biology. The primatologist Richard Wrangham described it as ‘A question that has lain unsolved at the core of biology ever since Darwin’ (in a review of E.O. Wilson’s 2019 book Genesis: The Deep Origin of Societies). And Darwin himself described it as the ‘one special difficulty’ with his concept of natural selection (On The Origin of Species, 1859, p.209 of 440). The reason for the ‘difficulty’and this is some basic biology for youis that genes normally can’t select for unconditionally selfless, fully cooperative traits, simply because such traits tend to be self-eliminating and so normally can’t become established in a speciesI mean, ‘By all means, you can be selfless and sacrifice your genes for me, but I’m not about to be selfless and sacrifice my genes for you.’ The process of natural selection dictates that selfish opportunism will supposedly always exploit selflessness, so how could such a selfish process as natural selection possibly have created such loving selflessness in us?

The answer is it was achieved in our forebears through nurturing. To explain what is so significant about a mother’s nurturing of her offspring, I first need to point out that a mother’s maternal instinct to care for her offspring is selfish because she is ensuring the reproduction of her genes by ensuring the survival of offspring who carry her genes. So maternalism is a selfish trait, which, as I’ve just said, genetic traits normally have to be for them to reproduce and carry on into the next generation. HOWEVER, and this is all-important, from the infant’s perspective maternalism does have the appearance of being selfless. From the infant’s perspective, it is being treated unconditionally selflesslythe mother is giving her offspring food, warmth, shelter, support and protection for apparently nothing in return. So it follows that if the infant can remain in infancy for an extended period and be treated with a lot of seemingly altruistic love, it will be indoctrinated with that selfless love and grow up to behave accordingly. So selfish maternalism can train an infant in altruistic selflessness. (Freedom Essay 21 on our World Transformation Movement’s website, and chapter 5 of FREEDOM explain this ‘love-indoctrination’ process, as we call it, more fully.)


Craig: So what you’re saying is that mothers’ nurturing of their infants is primarily genetically selfish because it ensures the reproduction of her genes, but to the infant it seems like it’s being given unconditionally selfless love.


Jeremy: Yes that’s right, and if we think about primates, being semi-upright from living in trees, swinging from branch to branch, and thus having their arms free to hold a dependent infant, it’s clear that they are especially facilitated to support and prolong the mother-infant relationship, and so develop this nurtured, loving, cooperative behaviour.


Bonobo mother carrying infant
Bonobo mother carrying infant

Bonobo mothers holding their infants


And in fact, bonobos, the ape species who live south of the Congo River in Africa, are extraordinarily matriarchal, or female role focused, and extraordinarily nurturing. You can find photos onlineand I’ll include some in the transcript booklet and video of this interviewthat illustrate just how nurturing bonobos are; they show bonobo mothers giving their infant their devoted and undivided attention!


Photograph by Frans Lanting 1997
Lana balancing baby Photograph by Frans Lanting 1997



Photograph by Frans Lanting 1997
Male bonobo and infant (San Diego Zoo)

Frans Lanting/Mint Images/Getty Images; San Diego Zoo (bottom right)

Bonobos nurturing their infants


And as a result of all this nurturing, bonobos are the most cooperative and loving of all primates, which is evidenced by these absolutely amazing quotes that I just have to read to you.

Bonobo zoo keeper Barbara Bell writes that ‘Adult bonobos demonstrate tremendous compassion for each other…​For example, Kitty, the eldest female, is completely blind and hard of hearing. Sometimes she gets lost and confused. They’ll just pick her up and take her to where she needs to go’ (‘The Bonobo: “Newest” apes are teaching us about ourselves’, Chicago Tribune, 11 Jun. 1998).

Primatologist Sue Savage-Rumbaugh says, ‘Bonobo life is centered around the offspring. Unlike what happens among chimpanzees, all members of the bonobo social group help with infant care and share food with infants. If you are a bonobo infant, you can do no wrong…​Bonobo females and their infants form the core of the group’ (Sue Savage-Rumbaugh & Roger Lewin, Kanzi: The Ape at the Brink of the Human Mind, 1994, p.108 of 299).

A filmmaker of the French documentary Bonobos says, ‘They’re surely the most fascinating animals on the planet. They’re the closest animals to man [in that they share almost 99 percent of our genetic make-up]…​Once I got hit on the head with a branch that had a bonobo on it. I sat down and the bonobo noticed I was in a difficult situation and came and took me by the hand and moved my hair back, like they do. So they live on compassion, and that’s really interesting to experience’ (short accompanying film to the 2011 French documentary Bonobos).

And bonobo researcher Vanessa Woods gives this first-hand account of bonobos’ unlimited capacity for love from her study of them in their home in the Congo basin: ‘Bonobo love is like a laser beam. They stop. They stare at you as though they have been waiting their whole lives for you to walk into their jungle. And then they love you with such helpless abandon that you love them back. You have to love them back’ (‘A moment that changed me – my husband fell in love with a bonobo’, The Guardian, 1 Oct. 2015).


Craig: Wow Jeremy, I mean these are astonishing quotes, they really are!


Jeremy: Yes, they truly are amazing quotesand bonobos are our closest living relatives, as mentioned they share 99% of our DNA. So we can see that bonobos provide the perfect evidence for how our distant ape ancestors became cooperative and loving.

I have another picture here of a group of bonobos resting in a grassy glade, which I will also include in the transcript booklet, and it perfectly equates with the description I mentioned earlier that Plato gave about what life was like for humans back in the ‘Golden Age’ of nurtured togetherness. Plato said, ‘And they dwelt naked, and mostly in the open air, for the temperature of their seasons was mild; and they had no beds, but lay on soft couches of grass, which grew plentifully out of the earth.’ Clearly we have a perfect instinctive memory (if we don’t choose to deny it) of what life was like before ‘the fall’ because Plato didn’t know of the existence of bonobos and yet knew exactly what our bonobo-like life before ‘the fall’ was like.


A group of bonobos at the Lola Ya Bonobo Sanctuary, Democratic Republic of Congo

Bonobos resting in a grassy glade


Now this quote is a bit long but it’s such a wonderful intuitive remembrance of our species’ bonobo-like time in an alienation-free, all-sensitive and all-loving state of innocence that I just have to read it out. It’s from the great Russian novelist Fyodor Dostoevsky. He wrote of a time when: ‘The grass glowed with bright and fragrant flowers. Birds were flying in flocks in the air, and perched fearlessly on my shoulders and arms and joyfully struck me with their darling, fluttering wings. And at last I saw and knew the people of this happy land. They came to me of themselves, surrounded me, kissed me. The children of the sun, the children of their sunoh, how beautiful they were!…​Their faces were radiant…​in their words and voices there was a note of childlike joy…​It was the earth untarnished by the Fall; on it lived people who had not sinned…​They desired nothing and were at peace; they did not aspire to knowledge of life as we aspire to understand it, because their lives were full. But their knowledge was higher and deeper than ours…​but I could not understand their knowledge. They showed me their trees, and I could not understand the intense love with which they looked at them; it was as though they were talking with creatures like themselves…​and I am convinced that the trees understood them. They looked at all nature like thatat the animals who lived in peace with them and did not attack them, but loved them, conquered by their love…​There was no quarrelling, no jealousy among them…​for they all made up one family’ (The Dream of a Ridiculous Man, 1877).

This description of being ‘conquered by their love’ is so like the description just given by the bonobo researcher Vanessa Woods, when she said bonobos ‘love you with such helpless abandon that you love them back. You have to love them back’. Again we see how accurate our memory is, if we don’t deny it, of what life was like before ‘the Fall’.


Fyodor Dostoevsky

Fyodor Dostoevsky (1821–1881)

Cover of Dostoevsky’s book The Dream of a Ridiculous Man



Craig: That quote is so wonderful, it’s just amazing, thank you Jeremy, I’m glad you read it out. This nurturing explanation for our moral instincts seems reasonably obvious, and evidenced by those quotes about bonobo behaviour and also by the photographs of the bonobos, so why haven’t I heard about this until now?


Jeremy: Well, just like the obvious truth that our species once lived cooperatively and lovingly, this truth that we acquired our moral instincts through nurturing has been an unbearable truth while we couldn’t explain why we humans became angry, egocentric and alienated and as a result lost the ability to adequately nurture our offspring with unconditional selflessness or love. The truth of our species’ Edenic all-loving and all-sensitive innocent past, and the truth that nurturing is what made us human, have both been impossible truths to accept while we couldn’t truthfully explain our present immensely corrupted human condition, explain why our species became so corrupted and lost the ability to fully nurture its offspring. As it’s been observed, ‘parents would rather admit to being an axe murderer than a bad mother or father’! (John Marsden, Sunday Life, The Sun-Herald, 7 Jul. 2002).


John Fiske photo

John Fiske (1842–1901)

John Fiske’s book


In fact, this reasonably obvious nurturing explanation for our moral conscience was first put forward by the American philosopher John Fiske in his book Outlines of Cosmic Philosophy, which was published in 1874, only a few years after Darwin published his theory of natural selection. And, at the time, Fiske’s explanation was actually recognised as being, and I quote, ‘far more important’ than ‘Darwin’s principle of natural selection’ and ‘one of the most beautiful contributions ever made to the Evolution of Man’ (Dorothy Ross, G. Stanley Hall: The Psychologist as Prophet, 1972, p.262 of 482). And Darwin himself went so far as to write to Fiske saying, ‘I never in my life read so lucid an expositor (and therefore thinker) as you are’ (1874; Life and Letters of Charles Darwin, Vol. 2). But again, while we couldn’t explain our loss of ability to adequately nurture our offspring, this ‘far more important’ insight than ‘Darwin’s principle of natural selection’ was let die and eventually disappeared from biological discourse!

I might point out that 1) Darwin’s natural selection explanation for the variety of species; 2) Fiske’s and my nurturing explanation for our moral instincts; 3) the instinct vs intellect explanation that I’ve given for the human condition; 4) the explanation I give in chapter 7 of FREEDOM for how we humans became fully conscious when other species haven’t; and 5) the Negative-Entropy-driven integrative meaning of existence (which we have personified as ‘God’) that is explained in chapter 4 of FREEDOMwhich together are the five main questions science has had to answer about our world and place in itare all reasonably obvious, straightforward, simple explanations that bear out biologist Allan Savory’s observation that ‘whenever there has been a major insoluble problem for mankind, the answer, when finally found, has always been very simple’ (Holistic Resource Management, 1988, 1st edition, p.3). As FREEDOM makes clear, having to live in denial of the human condition has blocked our access to so many reasonably obvious truths.


Craig: Thanks Jeremy. This is really amazing to learn about how science has denied our species’ cooperative and loving heritage, and the nurtured origins of that cooperative and loving soul. But it all really does make senseI mean we certainly needed the defence for our corrupted condition before we could face the truth about it.

I am speaking with Australian biologist Jeremy Griffith.




Part 4


How does the psychological rehabilitation of the
human race that the arrival of understanding of the human condition finally makes possible actually occur?


Craig: Hello and welcome back to Part 4 of the interview. I’m Craig Conway and I’m here with Jeremy Griffith, the biologist who has just explained how humans acquired our moral instincts. This is an absolutely remarkable interview!

So continuing on, Jeremy, what about my third question for this final Part 4 of the interview, which is how does ‘the psychological rehabilitation of the human race’ that this understanding gives us actually take place; do we all need to go into therapy or something?


Jeremy: Well, what this realand actually very obviousinstinct vs intellect explanation of the human condition fundamentally does is lift the ‘burden of guilt’ from the human race. It establishes that we humans are good and not bad after all. While we are all inevitably variously angry, egocentric and alienated from our different encounters with humanity’s heroic battle to find knowledge, ultimately self-knowledge, understanding of our corrupted condition, we can now know that every human is fundamentally good. And this ability to understand and know there was a good reason why the human race became psychologically upset, is the key, relieving understanding we have been in search of ever since we became conscious some 2 million years ago and our corrupted condition emerged.

That is the key relief for our mindbeing finally able to understand that we are good and not bad is what brings us the greatest psychological relief of all. The psychoanalyst Carl Jung said, ‘wholeness for humans depends on the ability to own our own shadow’, and since we can now ‘own’ the ‘shadow’ of our species’ 2-million-year-corrupted condition, the human race is finally in a position to become ‘whole’. The word ‘psychosis’ literally means ‘soul-illness’ and ‘psychiatry literally means ‘soul-healing’ (derived as they are from psyche meaning ‘soul’, osis meaning ‘abnormal state or condition’ and iatreia meaning ‘healing’see pars 63 & 72 of FREEDOM), but we have never been able to ‘heal our soul’, explain to our original instinctive self or soul that we, our fully conscious thinking self, is good and not bad and by so doing reconcile and heal our split selvesbut now at last we can.


Craig: Well, there is an adage that says ‘The truth will set you free’, so what you’re saying then Jeremy is that the truth of our fundamental goodness is the truth that we needed to set us free from the human condition.


Jeremy: Precisely, and while that is the main relief our mind needed, obviously the more we digest that relieving understanding, the more healing relief comes to every aspect of our upset conditionand to have had to endure being unjustly condemned as bad for 2 million years does mean there is a great deal of upset to heal.

To appreciate how much upset exists in us humans now, imagine living for just one day with the injustice of being condemned as bad, even evil, when you intuitively knew but were unable to explain that you were actually the complete opposite of evil, namely truly wonderful, good and meaningfulin fact not just good but the hero of the story of life on Earth! You would be hurt to the core and furious wouldn’t you! Now extrapolate that experience over 2 million years and we can begin to appreciate just how much volcanic frustration and anger must now exist within us humans! While we have learnt to significantly restrain and conceal‘civilise’ as we refer to itthe phenomenal amount of upset within us, under the surface we all must be boiling with rage, and sometimes, when our restraint can no longer find a way to contain it, that anger must express itselfhence our capacity for shocking acts of cruelty, sadism, hate, murder and war.


A collage showing examples of the volcanic anger in humans: Nazi rally; skulls from Pol Pot regime; Ku Klux Klan; wartime execution


And no wonder we have led such an evasive, denial-practising, lying, avoid-any-criticism, escapist, alienated, superficial and artificial, greedy, egocentric, power, fame, fortune and glory-seeking existence. We have had to smother ourselves with material glory while we lacked the spiritual glory of compassionate understanding of ourselves.


Images showing: a winning sports team; a pile of money; a luxury sports car; and a lavish house


So there is an enormous amount of upset to subside and heal in us humans, and that will obviously take time. In fact, we have to expect that it will take a number of generations to be completely ameliorated. But the good news, and this is very important, is that while it will take a number of generations to heal all the upset in us humans, everyone can immediately live free of their upset. The reason we can live free of it is that while we lacked the real defence and reinforcement of understanding of our corrupted condition, we absolutely needed the artificial defences and reinforcements of attacking any criticism of our corrupted condition, of denying and blocking it out, and of finding any positive reinforcement we couldanger, alienation and egocentricity are what sustained usbut now that we have the real defence and reinforcement of our fundamental goodness, all these artificial defences and reinforcements are obsoleted, they are no longer needed. In fact, to continue using the old artificial defences of retaliation, denial and the search for relieving power, fame, fortune and glory when our fundamental goodness has been established is not only clearly pointless but also unnecessarily destructive of ourselves, everyone around us and our planet. That way of living is now completely obsoleted, finished with.


Craig: That makes total sense; I mean our artificial ways of reinforcing ourselves are obsoleted by the real reinforcement of ourselves. One way of living ends, a new one begins, free of the human conditionphew, thank God for that!!


Jeremy: That’s for sure! There’s just one more thing I should explain, which is that socialism, the new age movement, the politically correct movement, and all the other idealistic movements, were actually all false starts to a human-condition-free world because the upsetting battle to find knowledge, ultimately self-knowledge, understanding of why we are good and not bad, still had to be completed. In fact, trying to impose cooperative and loving idealism on our upsetting search for knowledge while we still had to continue that upsetting search, made carrying on with it extremely difficult. These movements were pseudo idealistic movements that stifled and oppressed the search for knowledge; they were regressive, not progressive as they deluded themselves they were. It was actually the right-wing who have supported the upsetting battle to find knowledge that held the moral highground, not the pseudo idealistic left-wing.

But this situation all changes now that we’ve finally found the redeeming understanding of our condition that our upsetting battle was in search of. Suddenly it’s no longer oppressively and destructively pseudo idealistic to abandon the corrupting search for knowledge and take up support of cooperative and loving idealism, it’s now the only way of living that’s justified! Suddenly there’s no longer any reason for the right-wing in politics and everyone effectively becomes left-wing. In fact, the whole business of politics basically ends with the finding of understanding of the human condition, and the whole human race sets out as one united organism letting go the angry, egocentric and alienated part of ourselves and supporting cooperative, selfless and loving idealism. (Much more is explained about pseudo idealism in Video/F. Essay 14 on the World Transformation Movement’s website.)


Image of clashing fists with arrow to cleanching hands



Craig: Yes, ending the polarised world of politics will certainly be one of the biggest reliefs imaginable!


Jeremy: Absolutely Craig. It will be a massive relief.

So that’s how the whole world suddenly, immediately changes from a psychologically embattled angry, egocentric and alienated state, to a world where everyone has decided to abandon their still-to-be-healed competitive and aggressive behaviour and takes up support of a cooperative and loving existence.

So finding understanding of the human condition brings to an end the insecure, upset, artificial-reinforcement-dependent angry, egocentric and alienated world. A new human-condition-resolved, cooperative, selfless and loving world now emerges. Light comes streaming into the dark cave-like world of denial that we have been living in, and it will all be like waking up from a nightmare!


Computer graphic of people greeting the rising sun with outstretched arms


Basically, with the ability to understand ourselves, we can return to our original cooperative and loving state, but this time fully conscious. As the poet T.S. Eliot anticipated, ‘We shall not cease from exploration and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time’ (Little Gidding, 1942).


Craig: Wow Jeremy, that has been absolutely incredible, enlightening, enthralling, and I really can’t thank you enough for sharing with us your knowledge and your insight. To think about the human race being transformed just in the nick of time is, I think, what everybody out there who has listened to this will be hoping for.

And your book FREEDOM, again, is available on for everybody to accessand it’s free on there as well. So please follow this interview up, listen to it again and again, try your best to understand what Jeremy is saying here, but get online, get the information and keep studying, and let’s hope we can all enjoy and embrace a new change for the world, for all of us.

Jeremy, it’s been wonderful to talk with you. Thank you for joining us, and we will hopefully speak to you againbut even better, that we’ll be seeing your work in the lives of everybody across the planet very soon.

I’m Craig Conway, this has been my interview with Jeremy Griffith.




Genevieve Salter: So everyone, don’t forget you can learn all about this fabulous, world-saving breakthrough understanding of the human condition at!!

And I want to mention that what you’ll see there following this interview is a series of videos that elaborate on what’s been outlined in the interviewso there’ll be some repetition, but going over the concepts in more detail does help with the understanding and absorption of them.

In the first of those videos Jeremy warns us of our historic fear of the subject of the human condition and the resulting ‘deaf effect’ that reading or hearing about the human condition often initially causes.


Visit to view the film of this interview,
and to watch the series of introductory videos Genevieve has referred to.




Ways to acquire THE Interview booklet:


1. Purchase copies from bookshops, including Amazon, for around $US11 each (in 2020). These are beautiful 14 x 21 cm perfect bound, glossy-covered, colour booklets.


2. Purchase promotional copies at a very low price from the WTM for giving away, minimum order of 20. These are also the beautiful 14 x 21 cm perfect bound, glossy-covered, colour booklets but have a different ISBN to the above bookshop version and have stated on their covers ‘PROMOTIONAL COPY, NOT FOR RESALE’. The price of these promotional booklets is around $US4 (in 2020) each which includes delivery to most places in the world.


3. Print your own copies as either A4 or US letter PDF, or the smaller A5 or Half US letter PDF for easy carry and distribution, but these stapled folded booklets look more like pamphlets than the lovely little books above.


See details here.


Please note, we encourage constructive discussion about this information and so reserve the right to moderate or decline posts that we feel are not relevant or inappropriate. In particular, with the subject of the human condition being so confronting, malice can easily occur, and where comments are deemed to be motivated not by objectivity but by malice, they will be declined. It has to be appreciated that the possibility of malice toward this subject matter is very real, and we have a responsibility to manage that as best we can.

  • Anna on June 1, 2020 at 1:48 pm

    Who would have thought the human condition and its resolution could have been explained so simply. Fantastic presentation.

    • Very interesting.. revelation on July 4, 2020 at 7:46 pm


  • Polly on June 1, 2020 at 1:49 pm

    I am astounded by how much information is covered in this incredible interview, it really is world changing and saving! The implications of this are just so exciting now that we can fully understand ourselves and where we come from, and we can all participate in bringing about a free, happy and meaningful future. Hooray!!!!

  • Fi on June 1, 2020 at 1:55 pm

    A brilliant, articulate and really, really engaging and mind-opening presentation of biological thinking that is on a scale that can’t actually be measured!! So much is packed in to this interview, but it’s all amazingly accessible and understandable and relatable. A great lead-in to learning more in the video series that follows it.

  • Susy on June 1, 2020 at 2:02 pm

    You can’t overstate how important this interview is, I completely agree with Prof Prosen. I know it ends the turmoil, conflict and suffering in human life because that’s exactly what it has done for my life, it is just so vital that every human on the planet is given the opportunity to watch it. Jeremy Griffith is absolutely extraordinary in his profound clarity and insight into the source of all our problems of the human condition. In such a short time we are completely provided with ‘the road map for the complete rehabilitation and transformation of our lives and world’ no less, it’s so all-understanding and exciting and wondrous!! I will be sharing this from now to kingdom come! Humanity is FREE!!

  • Ned on June 1, 2020 at 2:11 pm

    A tight, clear presentation of Griffith’s breakthrough treatise. Brilliant!

  • Brony on June 1, 2020 at 2:23 pm

    I’ve been around this information for more than 25 years and this interview by Craig Conway and Jeremy Griffith is just the cleanest, purest, easily accessible and succinct presentation I’ve ever seen of Jeremy’s world-saving explanation of the human condition. And it is world-saving, well it’s saved my life many times over, I just can’t even imagine where I’d be if I hadn’t come across this understanding of us humans. This interview is rightly called THE interview because there’s never been a true understanding of the human condition before, and never been such a succinct presentation of the understanding. I really think this is going to be a game-changer for the human race because, as Craig says in the interview, the world can’t cope with any more upset behaviour, and this interview should go viral it’s so clean and straight forward to follow.
    Michael Leunig had a cartoon in the Sydney Morning Herald on Sat about how everyone’s deludedly thinking this coronavirus pandemic is going to allow everyone to build a new and better world because there’ll be no fundamental change, but wait until this interview starts getting spread around and everyone will realise a fundamental change is now possible. Someone should send this interview to Leunig.
    Just share this interview and help this real love go viral, please, please, please!!

  • Sally on June 1, 2020 at 2:24 pm

    Another brilliant masterpiece from Jeremy Griffith! The world is teetering on the edge of imploding as a result of 2 million years of anger, frustration, confusion and insecurity of our worth as humans and here, in just 1 precious, golden hour, Jeremy explains why and in so doing solves the human condition and shows us how all the pain and suffering we’ve endured can be fixed up up straight away. I love the description about THE Interview, as it surely is ‘the now urgently needed road map for the complete rehabilitation and transformation of our lives and world!’ A must-watch for everyone, thank you Jeremy and Craig for this most wonderful of all presentations.

  • Amanda Pollard on June 1, 2020 at 2:28 pm

    Pure AWESOME Watched it and shared it 🔆❤😁

  • Piper on June 1, 2020 at 3:24 pm

    For every question asked by Craig Conway in this interview there is a clear, logical and conclusive answer given by Jeremy Griffith. This is testament to a biological understanding of the human condition that can finally reconcile our embattled selves and forge a higher level of consciousness. What a wonderful platform and enlightening discussion that is needed for humans to burst out of a cave of denial, bring peace and heal the suffering in our world.

  • Roger on June 1, 2020 at 4:05 pm

    Wow, that was the clearest and subsequently most exciting communication from Griffith yet !!!!!
    If you’ve been struggling to understand this explanation or you feel like your missing something then you have to watch or listen to The Interview. It’s just so simply explained.
    I’d recommend watching it because Conway totally gets it and his excitement is contagious.
    Congratulations and thank you to both Griffith and Conway because it was another amazing moment for me and I’m backing it going viral.

  • Alice W on June 1, 2020 at 4:50 pm

    You have to listen to this hour of brilliance – it explains our species past, present and, if we embrace this biological understanding, a cooperative loving future. What have you got to lose! In deep deep gratitude to Jeremy Griffith and Craig Conway

  • Doug on June 1, 2020 at 6:55 pm

    What a fantastic interview that takes you through the whole human story from our pre-conscious beginnings as a species, to our current seemingly dire predicament, to how we can now turn it all around for ourselves and the future generations of humans, now that the human condition is solved.
    And all in just 1 hour!

  • Connor on June 1, 2020 at 7:30 pm

    All the great questions in human life are discussed openly and freely during this incredible discussion between Jeremy Griffith and Craig Conway. What’s particularly amazing is the breadth and scope of what this interview covers about the human story in just a short hour – from the clash between our instincts and intellect, all the way through to how we each can become free of our own selfish pre-occupation and collectively, save the world! An absolutely astonishing result of decades of refinement of the presentation of these absolutely critical, world-saving insights.

  • Ari on June 1, 2020 at 8:17 pm

    Wow! What an interview. Just brilliant. Thank you Craig
    It was only a matter of time before some media outlet got hold of Jeremy Griffiths work and played it for all to see.
    At least now people will have the chance to really listen to and absorb Jeremy’s explanations on the most important topic on Earth – the Human Condition.
    Solving the Human Condition is literally the only thing that can save the world. There is nothing else. Only the truth can set us free and here it is. All in this brilliant interview and the greatest book ever written FREEDOM.
    The holy grail of understanding and freedom from the HC awaits you.
    Thank you Jeremy. Thank you Craig. This will be the interview that sets us free.

  • Prue on June 1, 2020 at 10:02 pm

    The truth will set you free and that is exactly what Jeremy Griffith’s explanation does! The depth and clarity of Jeremy’s world saving presentation in THE Interview and the deeper, lasting solution it provides to all the chaos and suffering in human life, make it immeasurable how precious and enlightening this presentation is for the world. The truth is what our hearts and minds have needed. This is the gift of all gifts for the whole human race and the future. Thank you Jeremy and Craig

  • jozef deville on June 1, 2020 at 10:18 pm

    As if we had to wait till western modern science appeared ? As if modern science has been the only science ?
    Sorry , there have been sciences much more Holistic then modern science who understood very well the human condition and the path human beings have to go to develop consciousness at his highest level .

    • Susan on June 2, 2020 at 9:55 am

      Thank you for your interest in our work Jozef. As par. 1147 of FREEDOM explains ‘While virtually all scientists have had no choice but to operate from a basis of denial of any truths that led to confrontation with the issue of the human condition, it was still the practice of science that provided the all-important insights into the mechanisms of the workings of our world that were needed for that explanation to be assembled’. Solving the human condition required finding the clarifying difference between the way the intellect and instincts work, and that is the great breakthrough that Jeremy Griffith has found which you can see presented above in Part 1 of THE Interview, and also in Video/ Freedom Essay 3.

  • jozef deville on June 2, 2020 at 12:43 am

    All creation is created by the Creator and are the Creator. All life forms on this planet other than human beings live along patterns of harmony the creator designed for them without any distortion and always representing the unity with the Creator . With human being came the capacity to freely choose but at the same time freedom to disconnect ( that’s the real blasphemy ) from the Creator ( his real self ) with as a result creation of
    disharmony in all it’s different forms as we know and see it in the world . All life forms ” are ” the creator ( their real self ) in different shapes just as a human being is . The path off the hero is to be consciously aware of who he really is : consciousness itself . You might call it Source , God , Infinite , Eternal …From that place there is no need to fight against a so called angry alienated state . Just recognize of who we really are beyond the illusion of our limited perishable self . Sorry but I don’t need any of the scientists
    mentioned in the interview to discover my own true nature although it can help science oriented people , and surely they were sincere in their attempts . The experience of our own true nature has been present amongst many cultures and off course has been veiled or distorted depending the place and time but we didn’t have to wait till today , however every insight , new or old that brings us peace , is valuable : that’s important after all .
    Our judgment off selfishness leads us and keeps us in repeating destructing patterns till we discover our real Self and act from there . If time is now ready to break through it’s because nature from whom we depend is telling us to do so .

    Thank You Jeremy !

  • Lance on June 2, 2020 at 7:27 am

    If you just watch one video in your life make sure it is this

  • Prudie on June 3, 2020 at 7:38 am

    This really is the most precious and important presentation. It is THE Interview as Jeremy Griffith so brilliantly ‘actually solves the underlying issue in all human affairs of the human condition.’ Humanity has been thrown the ultimate lifeline – we humans are finally defended and explained and understood and liberated in this one extraordinary hour! As Professor Harry Prosen has said this brings about ‘the psychological rehabilitation of the human race’.

  • Deepak Bhatt on June 4, 2020 at 12:31 pm

    Craig Conway & Jeremy Griffith both are Man with Difference in their own field & interview is approved by Professor Harry Conway. I read all the four section. It contains different Books,their authors references & as a layman I understand it. It shows great passion & devotion of Jeremy Griffith to the subject. This interview should be shared with all the Ambassadors of all the Nations to watch them. After their positive review it should be Telecast & Broadcast into their nation with dubbed & subtitled into local languages. Let policy makers & people have firm understanding. if individual change converts into Mass Movement it will be Paradigm shift.Let all the ambassador convert into Ambassador of Love & this Earth become Garden of Eden.

  • Lesley Rose Davies on June 8, 2020 at 7:25 am

    The interview is absolutely brilliant. It is so clear.

  • Neil on June 16, 2020 at 6:11 am

    I agree with the sentiments in the other comments – this is a brilliant interview to watch. The incredibly concise presentation by Jeremy allows so much understanding to flood into your system, opening up a whole new landscape of understanding. The relief and amazement fills every cell of your body. An extraordinary experience.
    And I have to say having this transcript is so helpful to read through as I listen to Jeremy and Craig. A great resource to have alongside this ‘”most important interview of all time”.

  • Linda Harrington on June 17, 2020 at 10:59 pm

    This is absolutely fascinating, explained in an easy to understand fashion. I’ve always searched for the truth, everything felt oddly wrong, now I understand lose myself to find me. That’s exactly how it was several years ago after finding myself due to personal sadness. This has been easy for me to understand due to that reason. Almost stripping oneself of everything down to the bone and rebuilding each segment with love, truth- trusting own instinct, understanding, patience and faith.

    Thank you so much.
    Light and love
    Linda Harrington

  • Therese Stogner on June 19, 2020 at 5:32 pm

    As “Peanut’s” friend, Charlie Brown says, “Good grief”.

  • Ann Barnard on June 23, 2020 at 6:21 am

    So fascinating….Some of it was very deep…but I did understand most of it. A real eye opening context to how us humans live & act out our lives. Very interesting interview. A lot better than some things that are shown on Fb. I really enjoyed reading this. Thank You.

  • Babs Lambrechts on June 27, 2020 at 5:07 am

    So insightful! I belief with this knowledge the world will start to a better place. Thank you so much.

  • Eterio Herrera on June 30, 2020 at 8:04 am

    This narrative is the origin of Charles Darwin Theory that wants to change the course of the Bible, the original words of our GOD that Created the Universe, it is the oldest and original book of knowledge and human morality of Love and Respect to humankind in this wonderful world we called mankind.

    • Susan on July 1, 2020 at 11:36 am

      Thank you for your interest Eterio. Jeremy Griffith considers the Bible to be a repository of extremely rare denial-free truth, containing all the truth about human life albeit from a pre-science view, and Christ to be one of the greatest prophets that humanity has known. Possibly this FAQ may be of further assistance where it explains that religions aren’t being threatened by the arrival of the dignifying scientific understanding of the human condition—they are being fulfilled,

  • Mira on July 3, 2020 at 5:21 pm


  • Maire on July 6, 2020 at 7:33 pm

    Love it all… Thank-you Jeremy : )
    Don’t you think science have know this for a long time & have used it against us it to advance their commercialise interests in selling the average human a lot of product they do not need to feed their low self esteem, to facilitate the need for heirachy, separatism, religion, racism, & yes… a big treat to all the foundational traps that profit hugely from the status quo including all the profits from the destructive commercialisation of our food, destruction of the enviroment, petrochemical industry, neglectful waste practices, the sickness industry, depression, anxiety, covid, vaccinations, it just goes on & on…
    I get it & I got it a long time ago by travelling & my observation of the World & how it functions or
    Dis-functions…Look at Trump egotistical 7 yr old..The perfect pupit for Big Pharma & Lobby groups.
    The Western World it is the epitome of this dysfunction, it continues to generate vast wealth from humanity’s psychosis & it is vested in keeping humanity in darkness. Now that Jeremy Griffith has given everyone a clear vision of how & why… it is up to every individual to wake up & stop listening to the dogma you are being continually programmed with.. switch off the news, switch off your Tv’s in general & read this material & take procession of your own lives.
    You can remain slaves to the system if you want to remain slaves, slavery never really ended… people everywhere of every race & colour have surrendered their power, their minds & their hearts to a trance like robot state which they have fallen into by default.. what a great time to WAKE UP !!!!!
    Wake-up… & opt out of the psychological mayhem into total & complete FREEDOM!!
    Read the book.. the simplification of great truths… wake up, wake-up.. & remove your shackles : ) x

    • Genevieve on July 7, 2020 at 5:06 pm

      It’s great to have your interest and support Maire, thank you.
      As you absorb all this further, you will begin to appreciate more deeply that this information actually defends the dark side of ourselves, and paradoxically, it was only this understanding that would allow us to put that destructive behaviour behind us.
      With regard to the role of scientists, they, just like everyone have been suffering from the human condition which means we have all been living in fearful denial of it to cope. The whole scientific paradigm has been necessarily mechanistic and that does limit their ability to think truthfully about the human situation, but it did lead crucially to finding the essential workings of our world. This work is what was needed for a holistic thinker, such as Jeremy, to pull all the pieces together and solve the human condition once and for all.
      All the traits you list such as competitiveness, egocentricity, commercialisation, hierarchy, racism, the destruction of the environment, anxiety, depression are just symptoms of the human condition which has been our necessarily upsetting but unavoidable journey to enlightenment. This finally brings understanding to our upset selves and world and brings so much incredible meaning to it, we can see that all the pain, suffering, dysfunction and disintegration of ourselves and society has all been for the most heroic reason. The reason humanity are ‘slaves to the system’ and in a ‘trance like robot state’ is all due to the human condition, the 2 million year conflict between our instincts and intellect. Bringing understanding to this conflict, this real psychologically redeeming, relieving and transforming explanation is what Jeremy has delivered, and what will end human suffering at its source, and unite the human race. So yes, we can truly ‘wake up’ now and remove our ‘shackles’ because we are loved and defended to our core, freedom really is on for young and old.
      For a greater understanding of how it was the ‘right-wing who have supported the upsetting battle to find knowledge that held the moral highground, not the pseudo idealistic left-wing’ as Jeremy mentions in THE Interview above, I would recommend Video/Freedom Essay 14.

  • Tara Ac Jansson on July 10, 2020 at 3:23 am

    Hallelujah at last! Love all Serve all

  • David George on July 18, 2020 at 9:58 am

    You may have found the answer- but how do you implement a solution…?

    • Susan on July 20, 2020 at 9:10 am

      Thank you very much for your interest David. The practical application of this understanding is all-powerful but the reality is that we have necessarily had to live in denial of the human condition for so long that even though there is obviously a lot that has resonated with you, for you to spend time looking into our work, it typically takes time and patience to absorb the significance of these breakthrough ideas and how they apply to our every day lives and make for a better life. (Video/Freedom Essay 1 explains this particular aspect of the human condition.) With the dark side of our nature truthfully explained and defended and our fundamental goodness established we no longer have to behave insecurely and selfishly, we no longer have to prove our worth. We can now legitimately return to a selfless way of living and this is the rapidly transforming effect of being able to understand the human condition. To understand the transformation process more we would recommend Freedom Essay 15.
      And in regard to Ruth Benedict’s work, of which I only have a cursory understanding of, what I do know is that the human condition lies at the heart of all human behaviour, and at the heart of all cultures too. And although the human condition has been an off-limits subject for so long that many now find it hard to absorb any discussion of it, solving it is the holy grail of the whole human search for knowledge, and all humans at a deep level are intuitively aware of that. And so while the significance of the explanation of the human condition takes some time to absorb, and to a certain extent that absorption time might be influenced by cultural conditioning, the exponential rate that the explanation is being picked up around the world does show that all humans of all cultures have the ability to ‘hear it’. Which makes sense because what is being presented is completely logical and rational, and does not rely on ‘conditioning’ to be accepted; and the more you do absorb it, the more you realise just how all-redeeming, all-reconciling and all-liberating it is.

  • David George on July 18, 2020 at 10:28 am

    The anthropologist Ruth Benedict, in 1964- proposed two different styles of cultural and social conditioning- depending on the needs of the time. A good theory. Considering that there is merit to this theory- it may be possible to craft our common response to the world, over time.

  • Debbie Clout on July 19, 2020 at 3:11 am

    Love & Light were always the instinctive answer to our freedom!Wonderful breakthrough for the World!

  • Ronel Capalar on July 19, 2020 at 12:25 pm

    Worth reading and very transforming mind-setting!
    Great understanding on human condition for healing the World✌🏽🙏👏Every one must read! Thanks for sharing .Fingers crossed

  • Elizabeth venter on July 20, 2020 at 5:12 pm

    I found this interview mind blowing. I need to listen a few times to understand it more. I do know that to live in a loving non aggressive World would be paradise!

  • Tanya Edwards on July 23, 2020 at 3:56 am

    It makes so much sense, and I found myself nodding along as he spoke.
    It would be wonderful if the world acknowledged this and decided to accept this as the Truth. However, I think that even with the knowledge, you’d still get institutions like churches, corrupt governments, etc.. trying their level best to keep this truth from their flocks, citizens because we also have choice and being powerful and in control of thousands might overrule the need to live in love.
    I’m definitely going to spend time on the website offered, and I also want to thank you for the free literature, and the great interview, brilliantly executed by Craig Conway.

    • Susan on July 23, 2020 at 1:33 pm

      It is wonderful to have your interest Tanya and we are very pleased you found THE Interview so enlightening!
      You are right to be concerned about how we bring this understanding of the human condition to the world at large and we at the WTM are doing all we can to make these world-saving insights available to absolutely everyone. While this biological understanding of the human condition really is the universal solution to all the problems we face, it does have a slow start-up phase. It will take some time to break through the bastions of power in the world but once this information gets a foothold through enough people like you developing a deep appreciation and desire to support it, the selfless love and energy that will generated will solve our problems very quickly because instead of being preoccupied with power, fame, fortune etc, all our energies will be freed to truly work together and focus on doing whatever it takes to end the suffering in all the corners of the world.
      And of course it will take a number of generations for all the anger and upset in the world to subside and heal but the point is we have the means now both practically and psychologically, to love our world. And it begins with those secure and functional enough in society to recognise that and make the ‘change of heart’ that understanding of ourselves allows, so that we can actually deal with the overwhelming, more extreme problems in our world in a functional manner. It’s the power of cooperative selflessness that Jeremy talks about in chapter 9:9 of FREEDOM, to quote para 1232: ‘Importantly, the more this understanding and associated transformation catches on, the easier it will be for people to move from the old insecure, ego-centric way of living to the new, secure, ego-less way of living. The egocentric way of living has had such a powerful hold on humans because without understanding of the human condition all that we had was the superficial reinforcement we gained from seeking power, fame, fortune and glory, but now that relieving understanding has been found then that old egocentric way of living will quickly lose its power—so quickly, in fact, that everyone will be amazed by how swiftly their need for and attachment to the old artificial forms of reinforcement falls away.’
      For the growing momentum of support that is already building around the world for biologist Jeremy Griffith’s breakthrough explanation of the human condition, please see

  • Helen B on July 24, 2020 at 6:23 am


  • Nick on August 1, 2020 at 3:01 pm

    What a superb presentation of this ground-breaking world-transforming first-principled biological simple-to-follow fair dinkum explanation of the human condition! I commend it to every person every where!

    • Ellen on May 7, 2020 at 9:42 am

      Traditional hunter gatherer societies were mainly matriarchal or at least equal gender importance (also in the natural world is the bonobo example). It seems that with the rise of world religions and also rise of agricultural settled society and subsequent suppression of half the population in a patriarchal society – we can see where it all went wrong…

      • susy on July 7, 2020 at 4:55 pm

        The amazing thing about this information is that it actually defends men and their egocentric behaviour, and by so doing, allows the loving state we all want to come about. Certainly this breakthrough information explains all about our matriarchal history with the nurturing being the priority for our ancestors, prior to the human condition emerging, and yes the bonobos are a living example of that time. However once we became conscious two million years ago, and the human condition emerged, the priority changed to finding knowledge and that vital, and in fact very heroic role, fell to men and we changed to a patriarchal society. This includes all the traditional hunter gatherer societies. The really significant thing here Ellen is that this understanding of the HC makes sense of our upset, where it came from, why it has been unavoidable and that it actually is a very heroic and incredibly meaningful state. We have to bring understanding to our human situation to make any permanent and real change, and with this defence we finally can and all the pain and suffering that the HC has caused can come to an end. For a full explanation of the historical roles of men and women and how we are genuinely reconciled now through this understanding I would definitely recommend freedom essay 26, it’s fantastic! And for the differences in races and how this reconciles all races and cultures I would read freedom essay 28. I’ll put the links below

  • Pablo Fos Freire on August 3, 2020 at 1:44 pm

    Amazing and spot on
    What I’ve always felt
    But finally explained
    Don’t read books much these days
    Not since my daughter was smaller (and I’m really missing that) plus she’s dyslexic which was plus point for me because I got to read and improvise voices of characters so many times that I will always cherish and hopefully she’ll always remember.
    However I will read the book and possibility recreate a connection with my daughter on a different lleve

  • Dennis Winters on August 4, 2020 at 7:28 am

    The only problem I have with this theory is that the concept of humans having animal instincts has really only been around since Darwin’s Origin of Species. And the initial reaction to that theory was universally hostile. Religion, really , protected us from the truth of our origins , so the idea of people believing we were blighted by our animal instincts does not really hold water. Apart from that reservation, I think this explanation of the human condition makes sense. I thank you for sharing this .

    • Genevieve on August 4, 2020 at 11:34 am

      We agree that people have used fundamentalist, literalist interpretations of religious scripture to account for human origins and our supposedly sinful state, however, as Jeremy explains about the story of the Garden of Eden, the truth of the original innocence of the human race is actually present in that story because the Garden of Eden is a metaphor for our species’ original innocent state. And as Jeremy describes in paragraph 194 of FREEDOM, humans have since time immemorial related our savage behaviour to the savage behaviour of animals; for example in 1850, which is before Darwin published ‘Origins’, Tennyson referred to humans as being “red in tooth and claw” like animals.

  • Paddy Mann on August 7, 2020 at 12:26 pm

    This is not a revelation.. its common knowlege. Obvious to any one surely..

    • Susan on August 7, 2020 at 5:34 pm

      Solving the human condition Paddy required finding the clarifying difference between the way the intellect and instincts work, and that is the great breakthrough or revelation that Jeremy Griffith has found. It brings the much-needed clarification of the nature of ‘good and evil’, which is an amazingly simple answer but the implications of it could not be more significant, far-reaching or exciting.

      • Mark on August 8, 2020 at 3:35 pm

        It’s always been obvious to me.

  • Doug moffat on August 8, 2020 at 3:52 am

    I thought I was the only one trying to change people thought, grate, always said something good was going to happen after all this , 😍🤗

  • Mark on August 8, 2020 at 3:28 pm

    Exactly the story of Jesus. He understood the loss of innocence as described by the human condition. He taught selflessness and nurturing as humans should be, and also the partaking in any of the SINS was going to continue the dilemma of the human spirit. Unfortunately after his death the message got hijacked or maybe diluted over time by the very condition he alerted us to.

  • Colleen F on August 8, 2020 at 6:03 pm

    What a fantastic way to present and clearly hear the wonderful groundbreaking understandings from Jeremy Griffith. The conversation type questions and answers are perfect. Also, breaking these concepts down into 4 parts is a very helpful way to digest all the paradigm shifting information. Well done Jeremy, Craig and the WTM tech support crew in producing this for the world to hear.

  • Åke Andersson Nyköping Sweden on August 10, 2020 at 2:21 am

    Im 69 years old, and my experiens of life is not The best. I must Wright my words in Swedech, its 6 words.
    And I beliv you can translate The words.
    My words is to The World, Kärlek, Omtanke, o Respekt, and Veta kunna och Förstå 🌎🌍🌏🤗😊💞

  • Robert Anderson on August 11, 2020 at 2:05 pm

    The philosophy and ideas are excellent but please learn the art of precise. Get to the point!

    • Susan on August 11, 2020 at 4:43 pm

      Thank you very much for your interest in the WTM Robert and we’re glad to hear that you enjoyed the breakthrough ideas presented in THE Interview. As Genevieve mentions at the end of the video, in Video/Freedom Essay 1 Jeremy warns us of our historic fear of the subject of the human condition and the resulting ‘deaf effect’ that reading or hearing about the human condition often initially causes. What happens at first when discussion of the human condition begins is that our mind goes into shock and our protective denials begin to kick in and block the words and their meaning from entering our conscious awareness. At a certain point the words just wash over us, there is no absorption of them, and our minds effectively become ‘deaf’ to any more discussion of the human condition. Then, not knowing why we can’t take in what’s being written, we blame the presentation, believe it’s badly written, needs summarising or editing. We suggest that with patient re-reading and watching the deaf effect can be overcome and I would recommend you watch/read Video/Freedom Essay 1 and also Video/Freedom Essay 11 which includes some very powerful quotes from people who have overcome their personal ‘deaf effect’. You might also be interested also to hear a powerful account of this in a video in our Commendations section by Bill and Cindy McCaugherty from the WTM Canada West Coast Centre, which has been ‘voted the most helpful talk’. It does take a while to fully appreciate the extent of our denial and the impact this has on the way we perceive or respond to the presentation.

  • Jo on August 11, 2020 at 3:39 pm

    But narcissistic psychopaths don’t see themselves as ill and go for help…

    • Genevieve on August 11, 2020 at 5:08 pm

      Thank you for your comment Jo. As Jeremy says in THE Interview above, finding understanding of the human condition brings to an end the insecure, upset, artificial-reinforcement-dependent angry, egocentric and alienated world and that includes those with extreme states of egocentricity known as psychopaths or power addicts. Jeremy explains the power addicted state, particularly in men, in chapter 8:16D of his definitive book FREEDOM. Amongst the founding membership of the World Transformation Movement there are power addicts who have freed themselves of their affliction by taking up the Transformed Way of Living. The affirmations of the Transformed State given by WTM founding members John Biggs and Sam Belfield are recommended viewing.

  • Rita on August 11, 2020 at 11:33 pm

    Philosophy again with good literary research.
    Who paid for producing this free book?

    • WTM Admin on August 12, 2020 at 3:09 pm

      Great to have your interest in our work Rita. The WTM is a global not-for-profit movement supported by the efforts of members, volunteers and supporters from around the world, and through donations, see our FAQ 3.2.

  • Brian cooper on August 13, 2020 at 12:58 pm

    Finally some Enlightenment for the darkness many are living through.

  • Jan Mehlenbacher on August 14, 2020 at 2:27 am

    I had to listen to this because I’ve always believed we were brainwashed some how many many years ago putting this narsasistic and violent tendencies. Into our path to evelove into rash untrusting aggressive possibly down right violent behavior taught to us because of our openness to achieve knowledge. But this makes so much dahm sence I guess my problem is in ability to change what’s years of school have work so hard to brainwash us into believing. I’m afraid it has it hooks in to many. That won’t ever believe because it was pushed in school I wanna get behind this politics thing but when I’m trying actually to re and Invite myself for real its so cluttered and confusing but please put out more

    • Monica on August 14, 2020 at 2:08 pm

      It’s great to have your interest Jan! Yes in bringing understanding to the human condition, it brings compassionate and thus safe understanding to ALL of human behaviour, be it our individual lives, or politics and the whole democratic process, or religion, the relationship between men and women or different races etc. What you discover is this explanation unravels the seemingly impenetrable and insoluble confusion of human life and actually reconciles the polarities that currently exist — for instance the divide between the left and right wing in politics.
      It can take some deeper digestion to see the full significance of at last being able to make sense of the great paradox of the human life, namely how we humans are good when we appear to be the complete opposite. But what it means is that now that our goodness has been scientifically established we no longer have to continue to try and prove ourselves, which was the source of all our selfish, egocentric behaviour, and can legitimately return to a selfless way of living — and this is the rapidly transforming effect of being able to understand the human condition. Our conscious thinking brain finally has knowledge/ explanation/ insight into our seemingly horribly flawed human condition, and given time to absorb it, our psychologically troubled human condition can come to an end.
      After listening to THE Interview, we do recommend the series of introductory videos on our homepage.

  • Jackie Beattie on August 15, 2020 at 11:29 am

    Humans are not heroes. Being conscious and Seeking knowledge has led only to us being the only species to destroy the planet with our greed despite us understanding cause and effect, whereas all other species contribute to the natural echo system.

    • Genevieve on August 15, 2020 at 1:06 pm

      Jackie, Jeremy explains that the reason humans are heroic is because our greed and selfishness was an unavoidable result of the development of our uniquely conscious mind. We had to suffer upset and become alienated from our soul’s true world in order to find understanding of ourselves. The horror of our human-condition-afflicted lives is unthinkable and yet we’ve continued on our journey to find understanding. With compassionate understanding found, we can know we are good, we can reconcile with our cooperative and loving instincts and the natural world, our destructive behaviour can come to an end and we can begin the much-needed repair of ourselves and our planet.

  • Billy Hunt on August 17, 2020 at 2:21 pm

    Interesting…..but you still haven’t answered fully about the existence of true evil….as it certainly exists in people around the world!!!???

    • Susan on August 17, 2020 at 4:31 pm

      Thank you for your interest in the WTM Billy. Yes, the absolutely horrific psychologically upset state of the human condition has created an extremely frustrated and ferociously angry ‘dark side’ in humans, which has meant we are capable of ‘evil’ or terrible acts.
      But to quote FAQ 4.2, ‘what is so utterly exonerating and psychologically healing about our ability now to understand the human condition is that we can finally appreciate that there was a very good reason for our angry, egocentric and alienated lives—in fact, we can now see why our species has not just been ego-centric, but ego-infuriated, even ego-gone-mad-with-murderous-rage for having to live with so much unjust criticism/guilt, for some 2 million years. At long last we have the reason for humans’ capacity for shocking acts of cruelty, sadism, hate, murder and warfare—we now know the source of the dark volcanic forces in us humans.
      And with the ability now to explain and understand that all humans are good and not bad, all the upset that resulted from not being able to explain the source of our divisive condition is able to subside and disappear. Finding understanding of the human condition is what rehabilitates and transforms the human race from its psychologically upset angry, egocentric and alienated condition…
      Importantly, this understanding of why we became upset as a species does not condone or sanction ‘evil’, rather, through bringing understanding to humans’ upset behaviour, it gives us the power to ameliorate and thus subside and ultimately eliminate it—and, in the short term, to transcend all that upset and take up a transformed life in complete support of an anger, egocentricity and alienation-free world.’

  • Winnifred Wickwire on August 19, 2020 at 11:21 pm

    More art work needed of mothers nurturing their sons. If this is how woman help to understand the human condition , please make it well know for future mothers. The role of motherhood is very difficult & heartbreaking most of the time & very unrewarding . Many mothers just give up & let their sons do what they want, especially single mothers. Please promote Motherhood , please promote motherhood, through your posters. & clothing. I will try to do this also. Thank you, for this life changing information but I feels now hopeless for my grown upset children as they are now set in their ways .

    • Susan on August 20, 2020 at 9:50 am

      It’s wonderful to have your interest in the WTM Winnifred and thank you for your suggestions and support.
      As Jeremy explains in FREEDOM the crucial role that nurturing has played in the maturation of our species and continues to play in our individual upbringing today, has been another of those unbearable truths that humans couldn’t face until we could explain our divisive, unloving human condition. It has been a very difficult and heartbreaking situation as you describe. I would highly recommend you read ch 6:13 of FREEDOM which is titled, Nurturing now becomes a priority. There Jeremy explains that ‘now that we have found that very good reason why parents have been unable to nurture their children with anything like the unconditional love children instinctively expect and need, it is no longer necessary to deny the importance of nurturing both in the maturation of our species and in our own lives. Yes, with the arrival of understanding the terrible guilt that parents have felt for not being able to adequately nurture their offspring departs. Parents can now understand that their inability to adequately love their offspring is not their fault, but the product of the ever-accumulating levels of upset in the human race as a whole that resulted from our species’ heroic 2-million-year search for knowledge, specifically for self-knowledge, understanding of why we conscious humans are good and not bad. So yes, we can finally now admit the importance of nurturing and turn our attention back to the nurturing of our offspring—in fact, it now becomes a matter of great urgency that we do both these things.’
      The innocence of children is absolutely devastated by the psychologically upset world of adults. Importantly however, it’s not what has happened to us in our lives so much as our inability to understand why it was happening that has been the problem. It’s been the terrible silence about the horror of the human condition that children have had to endure that is so devastating, and what leads to them to having to resign in their adolescence (you can read more about the process of Resignation in Freedom Essay 30).
      What heals the world is the honesty that is now available — real therapy comes through understanding. We can talk to children about the unavoidable journey of the human condition and how corrupted we’ve become, and that honesty is what will heal their troubled minds. We have had to live in denial of the human condition, hide in Plato’s dark cave where no exposing light could reach us. But now that we have redeeming understanding that denial is no longer necessary and there are many unbearably confronting truths, such as our inability to nurture, that can be safely confronted now, leading to the repair of the whole human race.

  • Adrea Easten on August 20, 2020 at 3:23 pm

    …if genius is “the ability to see the obvious” then this deceptively simple explanation of the role of the Ego in our evolution is ABSOLUTELY brilliant…I feel FREE, FREE, FREE…free of the dark confusion I’ve always felt because I could NEVER understand how ‘survival of the fittest’ allowed such a plethora of human misery-causing weakness to exist?! … from the bottom of my soul, THANK YOU for sharing this with all of us 😍
    BTW–this also may explain why so many people who care for intellectually disabled individuals ‘fall in love’ with their job? Not suggesting they are less evolved, just the opposite, as many of them do experience the prolonged nurturing you suggest may have helped us evolve.

  • Terry Anxerson on August 21, 2020 at 2:26 pm

    Brilliant and simple. I’ve said the same for 20 years. If you read Swedenborg, or The Padgett Messages, they talk of an ancient ient time when humans lived in harmony, without the orruption of the ego. Animals are living today as they have lived for millions of years, while humans have become self destructive and obsessed with fear. Animals would not lock down the herd because a few elderly died of a virus. Animals are not obsessed with ego, or there own self importance. They do not get free hancouts from the government to buy votes. Animals dont need politicians, lawyers, doctors, or psychologists.

  • peter jennings on August 23, 2020 at 1:17 am

    If ti was that simple We all would be living in a ideal world.Powerfull governments will always keep the under dog down .I n His speach he has not mentioned how the poor will ever prosper Regards Peter Jennings

    • Monica on August 24, 2020 at 2:10 pm

      We totally agree Peter that this information must reach everyone, very much including those less fortunate, and we are doing all we can to make these world-saving insights universally available. We are still in the pioneering stages of gathering support for these all confronting but wonderfully liberating insights and it will take some time to break through the bastions of power in the world, and for people to realise that this is what it says it is, as with any new scientific breakthrough in history. However once this information gets a foothold through enough people developing a deep appreciation and desire to support it, the selfless love and energy that will generated will solve our problems very quickly because instead of being preoccupied with power, fame, fortune etc, all our energies will be freed to truly work together and focus on doing whatever it takes to end the suffering in all the corners of the world.
      We do already have authoritative support, such as from arguably the world’s leading psychiatrist in Professor Prosen (see the commendations section on our website), a large and growing global subscriber base and over 40 WTM Centres all around the world (see this link), and in time we will attract more influential support which will in turn aid in helping those less fortunate to access this.

  • Noreen O' Shea on August 24, 2020 at 3:27 pm

    I just wanted to say Jeremy, I’m 55yrs old and speeking for my up bringing, it wasn’t right to be shown any kind of love, my brother and I were shown who was boss very early and didn’t speak out unless we were allowed and left with a lot of damage because off our up bringing, it was hell, we were beaten as if we were adults not very young children, I listened to what ye had to say, but I’m afraid it’s not that easy to get over it even at my age. Thank you for reading this.

    • Susan on August 25, 2020 at 10:26 am

      We are very, very sorry to hear about the pain you and your brother have suffered Noreen and are very appreciative of your interest. The human condition has absolutely been such a deeply, deeply tragic journey full of so much unthinkable pain and suffering, especially for children, it really is almost too much to bare.
      It certainly can be overwhelming trying to deal with the human-condition-afflicted suffering in ourselves and in the whole of the human race, but Noreen that therapy is now able to begin with the understanding that we now have of why it all happened, and from there we each, and the human race as a whole can work our way inwards to the core suffering within. So it is a process and as Jeremy says it’s going to take generations for all the anger and upset to subside and heal.
      What is significant about this explanation is we don’t have to be burdened by the fundamental question we all have struggled with of whether we are good or bad anymore because our fundamental goodness as a species has been biologically established (which THE Interview and Video/Freedom Essay 3 summarises). That macro truth looks after all humans now and we can treat ourselves with great compassion and kindness and know that what happened to us as infants was not because we weren’t good enough or that we were unlovable but rather the human condition caused a level of upset in humans so great it gave them the capacity for such acts of violence. Our FAQ 4.2 about human ‘evil’ may also be helpful. To quote an extract, “At long last we have the reason for humans’ capacity for shocking acts of cruelty, sadism, hate, murder and warfare—we now know the source of the dark volcanic forces in us humans” but “Importantly, this understanding of why we became upset as a species does not condone or sanction ‘evil’, rather, through bringing understanding to humans’ upset behaviour, it gives us the power to ameliorate and thus subside and ultimately eliminate it—and, in the short term, to transcend all that upset and take up a transformed life in complete support of an anger, egocentricity and alienation-free world.”
      It does take some time to absorb the significance of this information and it’s far-reaching implications so I hope you continue to explore our material as the more you absorb it the more you see that it will bring about the reconciled, loving world that you and your brother, and all children dream of. Further FAQs that we recommend are FAQ 4:1 about the transformation this information brings about and also FAQ 1:19 which explains that it can be very confronting and therefore destabilising on a personal level if people overly study the information or rush into it so that is something everyone should be mindful of and especially if you have a history of trauma or psychological instability.

  • terry gussin on August 25, 2020 at 11:58 am

    ty awesome news for humanity

  • Donald on August 25, 2020 at 1:16 pm

    I can not agree.
    Man has been here much longer than 2million years . I agree with the compassion aspect. Yet truthfully were made. So all the flaws of our DNA genes are input in certain DNA strains. I love his phylosofy. But I need to understand it further.

  • Carlos on August 25, 2020 at 3:31 pm

    Oh Wow I’m completely blown away. Feels like a big mountain just got moved out of the way in terms of human progress and I want to tell everyone! How good’s this!

    • Durstin Gray on June 1, 2020 at 9:35 pm

      Yes, it’s not pie in the sky . We can truly have it now.
      The miss explanation we have lived with through religious control has ended and we can now live fully in FREEDOM. The word (SIN) is an old English word used by Archers in practice. Means, to miss the mark, and with Freedom explained we now cannot miss the mark. Durstin Gray.

  • sarah on August 26, 2020 at 5:44 pm

    Patriarchy is the psychosis!

    • Rozee Cutrone on August 29, 2020 at 7:49 am

      Current form of Capitalism reflects & supports competitive, agressive & selfish societies…angry egocentric & alienated. The conscious mind is a wonderful thing! Gnostics have known Adam & Eve were hero’s for thousands of years.

      • Tommy on August 29, 2020 at 2:13 pm

        Hi Rozee, I enjoy these topics you’ve raised! What I’ve learnt, and as Jeremy explains in this remarkable interview, is that there is the most magnificent reason for our angry, egocentric and alienated behaviour, all being by products of the corrupting but heroic search for knowledge. As you say the conscious mind is actually a wonderful thing, and this understanding only adds first principle biological evidence to that fact! Similarly as Jeremy touches on at the end, there is a really good reason for the right wing and capitalism, and although the whole world of politics can come to an end now with understanding, in the current political field the right wing actually held the high moral ground. This is further explained in the very enlightening Freedom Essay 34, will put link at the end, a must read!
        In terms of the Gnostics, I’ve recently read Freedom again and Jeremy refers to that relatively sound religion in chapter 8, explaining that they emphasised self-knowledge. Again I’ll try to find the link and put it at the end as you will enjoy reading it. The huge difference from the days of the Gnostics and all religions is the truth about human life that they present is all from a pre-scientific view. Solving the human condition required finding the clarifying difference between the way the intellect and instincts work, and that is the great breakthrough that Jeremy Griffith has found (which is explained in the interview above). Again it is the biological proof for why Adam and Eve are the heroes of the whole story of life on Earth!

    • Susan on August 29, 2020 at 12:01 pm

      We disagree Sarah. At the heart of the explanation in THE Interview is the revelation that all our astonishingly selfish and brutal behaviour, especially on the part of men, has been an unavoidable consequence of humans’ necessary search for self-knowledge. The human condition has been a tragic situation and as Jeremy explains the rift that resulted between men and women has caused some of the deepest wounds in human life. Now we have understanding of our human-condition-psychosis which is shared by all humans, women are finally able to reason and see that what men have been doing on this planet has been actually the most meaningful and heroic job of all—and speaking from experience that is an absolute revelation! I will never forget when I first realised this, that men aren’t the monsters I thought they were, it literally did stop me dead in my tracks! Women have been the victims of men, we have been horribly oppressed and are now understandably very angry and resentful towards men. But as Jeremy always says, the question screaming to be asked is WHY have men oppressed women?! To finally have an answer to that is simply amazing and the rift between the sexes begins to heal at a rapid rate.
      As molecular biologist Dr Anna Fitzgerald says in her commendation of Jeremy’s work: ‘because Griffith’s work establishes the equal worth or goodness of all humans we can now understand the different roles that men and women have traditionally played in the human journey and this is actually the unlocking point, this is what brings about deep empathy for each other, it heals the divide.’ You can watch/read this Video/Freedom Essay 9 titled This is the real liberation of women here.
      For further understanding about the embattled relationship between men and women, and the subsequent reconciliation that is now available we recommend Freedom Essays 26 and 27. Or for a summary you can visit our FAQs about men and women here.

  • Nomad on August 27, 2020 at 3:04 pm

    Watch this video. In one hour it doesn’t just explain the human condition, it untangles it, brings relieving understanding to it, solves it, heals it, puts it to rest, makes it all clear, liberates us, transforms us all, you name it, it bloody well does it. It is the most important video on the planet. Like the man says, if you just watch one video in your life, make sure this is it!

  • Margie on August 29, 2020 at 12:04 am

    What a lovely and understandable explication of our inner soulful drive for Beauty and Peace. Thank you for giving me and others to see the light in this very dark place today.

  • LJ on August 29, 2020 at 11:45 pm

    How excellent!! Thank you!! I wish everyone could see life this way!! I don’t appreciate the pull into politics at the very end!! LOL Thank you again!!

  • John Pritchard on September 1, 2020 at 7:14 pm

    I’m sorry but after enduring over one hour of this ‘revelation’ I am no further enlightened. I fail to see how all this talk can possibly be implemented into a ‘road map’ to end all misery and suffering.

    • Tony M on September 2, 2020 at 10:06 am

      We appreciate your interest John. As Genevieve mentions at the end of the video, in Video/Freedom Essay 1 Jeremy warns us of our historic fear of the subject of the human condition and the resulting ‘deaf effect’ that reading or hearing about the human condition often initially causes. We suggest that with patient re-reading and watching the deaf effect can be overcome. This is an extract from an interview with leading Australian broadcaster, Brian Carlton, who talks about the reward of persevering with this information: ‘It’s very simple, it’s not hard. The end process, the revelation, if you like, is easy and reassuring and calming and self-accepting. Getting there is the difficult bit. Once you have the revelation, the clarity of it is euphoric almost … But that process, the process of stripping off the denial, that’s the difficult part. Once you’ve done that it’s relatively simple from there … it’s an intellectual epiphany. It’s an epiphany of mind; my understanding of this is now better than it was, I’m now more complete, I have a more complete understanding of myself, everybody around me, the society at large, the way the planet works. It’s a revelation!…You wake up the next morning feeling more invigorated, more able to deal with the world because your level of understanding of it is so much higher.’ For more of Brian’s interview, see here.
      You might also be interested also to hear a powerful account of this in a video in our Commendations section by Bill and Cindy McCaugherty from the WTM Canada West Coast Centre, which has been ‘voted the most helpful talk’, as it is especially useful in explaining how to overcome the deaf effect and how this liberating understanding works in healing your life.

  • Rik on September 2, 2020 at 7:16 am

    A revelation in every sense of the word. I hope for the sake of mankind that the whisper becomes a roar.
    Having taken thousands of years to get to this point, it is nigh on impossible to imagine that we have enough time to make things right before the light is lost forever.
    Where and how to start, when so many are not even aware that there is a question to be asked……

  • sonia joy proteau on September 3, 2020 at 5:27 am

    thank you very much for the information

  • Philip Davies on September 3, 2020 at 11:52 am

    I have watched the whole presentation and ..
    I cannot agree that anything in the interview is ground breaking.
    The very fact that Human Consciousness like Animal Consciousness has not fully developed is constantly evolving therefore Humans do not yet possess full Consciousness.
    Some animals bury their dead and also display evidence of Mourning their Dead which are both characteristics of Consciousness.

    The human condition is based on Ego albeit a much more developed form of Ego.
    Ego and all the other human negativity both Animals and Humans share, we all compete for…
    Breeding rights
    What separates us from Animals is Greed.
    Humans will kill for pleasure, Animals do not.

    Until Humans respect their environment and share its resources Equally and have Respect for each other, Humans will never achieve Full Consciousness.
    Therefore the Human condition is that Incomplete Consciousness and the presentation has not recognized this.
    Although I do not agree with your presentation I do thank you for addressing the problem and have took the time to offer a solution.
    I look forward to your feedback.
    Thank you

    • Tony M on September 3, 2020 at 6:13 pm

      We very much appreciate your interest Philip.
      In Part 1 of ‘THE Interview’ Jeremy Griffith explains humans’ egocentric, greedy behaviour is not a product of unchangeable savage animal instincts within us, but the result of a psychosis, caused by the clash between our instinct and intellect. Humans suffer from the conscious-mind-based, psychologically troubled human condition, not the genetic-opportunism-based, animal condition that you describe. And, most importantly this psychosis can be healed with understanding. It is fixable or changeable—not unchangeable, which is what it would essentially be if our competitive and aggressive nature was instinctive. This is further discussed in Video/Freedom Essays 2 and 14.
      Consciousness and what has prevented the development of it in other animals is summarised in FAQ 5.4. In a nutshell, consciousness ‘means being sufficiently aware of how experiences are related to attempt to manage change from a basis of understanding’ and I suggest that while other animals have various levels of awareness, humans are alone in their ability to manage events from a basis of understanding, and so are the only truly conscious animals on the planet. When you say our consciousness is incomplete I interpret that as our psychological development is incomplete and we would definitely agree with that. It’s that underlying issue — our destructively behaved human condition— that really has to be addressed and fixed if we are to progress psychologically as a species, and solve our and the world’s problems, including being able to care about the Earth again. The significance of Jeremy’s explanation of the human condition takes some time to absorb Philip, but the more you do absorb it, the more you realise just how all-redeeming, all-explaining, all-reconciling and all-liberating it is.

  • Lizzy on September 3, 2020 at 4:03 pm

    Wow. This has brought everything home for me! incredible.

  • George on September 3, 2020 at 8:53 pm

    I think our parents, and the culture that we grow up in plays a large part of our lives, e.g the difference between right and wrong, poverty and riches, and the ability to make the correct choice in life. We all want to protect what little we have, or whatever materialistic thing we want. We must improve the education system? Love will pave the way.we desperately need to live and respect mother nature. ” Nature was not intended with mankind in mind.

  • Bruce on September 4, 2020 at 10:26 am

    It’s not every day you read something so profound. Thank you.

  • Dennis Nash on September 5, 2020 at 3:54 am

    It is very interesting that he does have a great understanding of the human condition, but needs to go to the next level and that is how did we get here where did this soul and body and the greater power come from, leaving out a Supreme Intelligence (God) and referring to creation in the Garden of Eden as the plausible of his understanding is a late level it explains our Good/Bad but does not explain why we are here. The Bible conveys the reason written in veiled old Testament and Actual new Testament reasoning for our existence. However it is a great insight into the human condition leaving out our reason for being.
    Cheers, this is just a thought to provoke pre existence level via Supreme being. :)

    • Genevieve on September 6, 2020 at 9:55 am

      Hi Dennis, you might be interested in our Freedom Essay (FE) series where Jeremy explains the other key biological explanations in more detail. Namely, ‘How we acquired our altruistic moral conscience’ in FE21; ‘Fossil discoveries evidence our nurtured origins’ in FE22; ‘Integrative meaning or “God”‘ in FE23; ‘How did consciousness emerge in humans?’ in FE24 and ‘The truthful biology of life’ in FE25.

  • Paul Bennett on September 8, 2020 at 1:02 pm

    I gave an hour of my (shrinking volume of) life to this vid. I was determined that at the first mention of God, Christ, or anything overtly messianic, I would crash out. As it happens, I gave it some leeway due to the obvious Co Durham accent & (assumed) heritage of the host; (irrational, I know, but as a Darlington lad and a linguist, as well as aging hippie & devout atheist, I’m still not without harmless prejudice), but with still no mention of of anything religious or pseudo-mystical, I paused at the end of part 1, got some more beer, and continued.
    It was worth the loss of an hour of the time left to me. In short, if you have an open mind, but not so open that it admits obvious bollocks, it’s worth looking at, if you have an interest in the overlap of philosophy, anthropology, ethics, behavioural psychology, the power-dynamics, and invention of, religion, paedogogy, and with filaments reaching out in loads of other directions. It’s a bit too evangelistic for my taste, and the touted book isn’t something I’d regard as essential to everyday life, like the Bible or the Little Red Book, or Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance were supposed to be, but given the fact that the vid’s purpose seems to be as an infomercial to direct the viewer to the accompanying website, it’s acceptable as such. Favourable references to two of my modern-day heroes, St-Exupéry & van der Post, only increase my interest in the subject.
    I’d be interested to know what interested parties & recognised authorities in the field think/thought of the ideas espoused here. Sadly, we’ll never know the view of Prof Hawking, but the views of van der Post’s lifelong friend, HRH the Duke of Cornwall, Prof Steve Jones, and Prof Richard Dawkins would be, in my view, interesting and contributive.
    I believe this synopsis to be fair & reasonable. I’m not a scientist or a specialist in any of the areas I mention – I’m actually a musician & linguist. But if your mind is sufficiently open to admit interesting new ideas, but not to allow your brain to drop out of the hole, this is definitely worth looking at, and subsequent to posting this message, I intend to access the the cited website.
    Cheers, Paul The Same. If anyone is sufficiently interested to send me an email, they’ll be able to discover by trial & error my email address!

    • Susan on September 8, 2020 at 4:06 pm

      We greatly appreciate your interest Paul and encourage you to continue to investigate; it’s significance will only continue to grow on you. In fact, we suggest that the more you look into it, the more you will agree with Craig Conway and Professor Harry Prosen that this is a breakthrough of immeasurable importance to the human race.

  • koen roffel on September 8, 2020 at 5:07 pm

    I agree!
    Thanks for this information!
    Greetings from Amsterdam

    • Susan on September 8, 2020 at 5:31 pm

      Wonderful Koen! You may be interested to know that we have two WTM Centres in the Netherlands, the WTM Amsterdam Centre which was founded by Annemieke Akker and Hendrik Riksen, see (also available to view in Dutch), and the WTM Arnhem Centre founded by Jolanda Timmerman and Fred Lankamp, see You will see they each include wonderful videos talking about why they each established the Centres and contact information is available too. In addition, our introductory publications including THE Interview and Jeremy Griffith’s definitive book FREEDOM: The End of The Human Condition are also available in Dutch having been translated by Annemieke and Hendrik, and are freely available in Dutch on both websites.
      All of the many WTM Centres around the world can be seen at this link,

      • Marina Friedrich de Jong on November 24, 2020 at 3:53 am

        That’s amazing!!! Jeremy is an incredible man. Thank you very much Susan for a great news! I will share it with my husband, we are living in The Netherlands, he is Dutch & it’s always easier to learn it in your native language in parallel with English for deeper understanding. Can’t wait to buy the book.

        • WTM Admin on November 25, 2020 at 5:12 pm

          What wonderful feedback Marina! Now all our translations are also available on our website. Just go to our homepage and below the ‘Main Videos’ there is a ‘Translations’ button. Click that and follow the prompts to access THE Interview and many other WTM publications in various languages!
          You can buy purchase hard copies of FREEDOM and Jeremy’s other books at bookstores, including Amazon. Also they are all freely available to read online or download here on our website and the summary booklet Transform Your Life is also available as an audio book! Thank you for your comment and happy reading!

  • IMAMDAD KARUM on September 14, 2020 at 6:17 pm

    If my understanding is correct,the human’insticts, is as ancient as human history itself,but the process of developing human consciousness is gradually,started from epoch of Adam and Eve,What about the realization and consciousness of the existence of the soul, as the human personality is the component of body, intellect, and soul.What is the first creation of God, Universe, body, Intellect Or soul??? Thanks a lot for the kind explainations from some one.

    • Monica on September 15, 2020 at 10:33 am

      For an explanation of our all-loving, unconditionally selfless moral instincts or
      soul and how we acquired it Imamdad please see Freedom Essay 21, and for an explanation of integrative meaning and its personification as ‘God’ please see Freedom Essay 23.

  • Rachel on September 14, 2020 at 9:37 pm

    Complex yet a beautiful simplicity at the same time. What a feeling of hope.

  • Jw clink on September 15, 2020 at 3:24 am

    Explain to me why are dark skined people are hated all over the world???
    And, do you believe in God, or life after death?

    • Tony M on September 16, 2020 at 2:56 pm

      Thank you very much for your interest JW Clink. Significantly Jeremy Griffith’s breakthrough instinct vs intellect explanation of the human condition allows us to understand why the horror of racism has existed under the duress of the human condition and, most importantly, finally brings it to an end. This desperately needed reconciling understanding of the relationship between races is explained in Freedom Essay 28. Many of our WTM Centre founders talk about this reconciliation and liberation from racism on their centre websites, including Aboriginal Michael Manolis from the WTM Broom Centre, and Franklin Mukakanga from the WTM Zambia Centre, see his video in Video/Freedom Essay 8.
      Although ultimately a fulfilment of religion (see FAQ 6.3), understanding of the human condition also finally makes it possible to explain and demystify religious concepts. In terms of understanding the theme or purpose or meaning of existence, and its personification as ‘God’ we would recommend Freedom Essay 23. And Jeremy explains and demystifies our need to believe in a physical ‘afterlife’ in par. 840 of FREEDOM and in more detail in this section of his 2003 book A Species In Denial.

  • jaginder shergill on September 16, 2020 at 4:44 am

    Wow, a book called course in miracles explains the human condition the same way. The two match almost completely but CIM describes it in spiritual way. Here its biological perspective. Thank you for the video.

    • Susan on September 16, 2020 at 10:02 am

      We appreciate your interest Jaginder however to see the huge difference between what we are presenting and the ‘Course in Miracles’, you may find this comment on Video/Freedom Essay 9 by subscriber Lesley Davies helpful. Lesley said: “I can now see why A Course in Miracles didn’t work for me. I completed the 365 day course three years running to try and heal myself from deep depression and anxiety. After reading essay 15 and studying Freedom it becomes clear that without the explanation of WHY we are so upset ACIM can only act as a sticky plaster with the ’scream’ still going on underneath.” We also recommend our FAQ 6.5,

  • Ronald Bebout on September 17, 2020 at 3:16 am

    You changed my life forever in your video I just watched , it gave me hope that it’s not to late to change the world . Thank you so very much for sharing that with all of us !! ❤️
    You explained a lot of things that have been in my mind but I have never had the proper words to describe them . Now that we know the problem and the cause we need to figure out the solution …. and I hope you have some suggestions … I will be passing this on to other people, this is so important that all world leaders should know about it . We need to incorporate this to the schools…. it’s incredible that we have been creating our own problems ! This world definitely needs to transform into something better ! The hate is getting out of control !

  • Judith klu on September 20, 2020 at 3:58 pm

    Very true. Many thanks to Jeremy. God Bless him.

  • Alan on October 26, 2020 at 4:08 am

    Not really following this. What is it that I am forgiving myself for ? Or have I missed the point completely ?

    • WTM Admin on October 26, 2020 at 6:04 pm

      Hi Alan, the very nature of the human condition, the issue of whether we are fundamentally good or bad, means explanation of it can be initially difficult to access. It has been the most unbearably depressing and terrifying of subjects to face — why are we capable of such contradictory behaviour as to be selfless and loving but also selfish and destructive? Until that question could be answered, which it has in THE Interview, we have lived with a feeling of unworthiness, insecurity, shame and guilt and, necessarily, in almost total denial of the human condition, so it does take a while to fully appreciate the extent of our denial and the impact this can have on the way we respond to discussion of it.
      Significantly, now our upset state is explained and defended, we can safely re-connect with the human condition in ourselves and the world and bring love or forgiveness to our dark side. In fact the more you digest the explanation, the more you understand that becoming corrupt was an immensely heroic state, not a shameful one.
      It may help to watch/read Freedom Essay/Video 1 about this initial ‘deaf effect’ block to accessing discussion of the human condition and hopefully it will encourage your ongoing patience with this information. The summary in FAQ 1.16 might also be helpful.

  • Margaret J on October 26, 2020 at 9:06 pm

    My gut feeling about this is one of relief and strength and that maybe we can actually save the world. I am eager to investigate further and value this experience. I have told my family to watch this asap

  • mohamed reda on November 2, 2020 at 4:39 am

    You changed my life forever in your video I just watched , it gave me hope that it’s not to late to change the world . Thank you so very much for sharing that with all of us !! ❤️

  • Carole KOHL-DUGGAN on November 24, 2020 at 2:18 am

    Very enlightening and moving! Thank you! It reminds me of the words of Christina von Dreien. We have all forgotten that we are all children( souls) of the light… Everything that is helping us to remember will solve our inherited problem. And the science of today has found in its new dimension of knowledge how to explain this to us. In gratitude Carole.

    • Annie on November 24, 2020 at 6:01 pm

      It’s wonderful to have your appreciative feedback Carole. What is so significant about Jeremy Griffith’s biological treatise is it actually answers the essential question of why, when the ideals are to be loving and selfless, are we so competitive and selfish? Why have we forgotten about the all-sensitive world of our soul? The fundamental problem the human race has always had is to explain or justify competitive, selfish and aggressive behaviour. That is what Jeremy finally explains with his instinct vs intellect explanation of the human condition and what is of unique importance to the survival of the world. As you say the science of today has finally found the much-needed knowledge to explain this which is indeed enlightening and moving because it floods the world with relief and freedom! The full significance of this explanation does takes time to absorb, but the more you do absorb it, the more you realise just how all-reconciling and liberating it is. Our FAQ 6.5 which explains the huge difference between Jeremy’s work and that of spiritual, new age movements may be of interest.